A look at the Trent Green trade
You guys know how I feel about adding Trent Green. I just don't think renting a 37-year-old player who spent most of last year injured is such a great idea, regardless of his history with Miami's coaches and his desire to be in Miami.
There's a million ways bringing Green to Miami can fail while there is only one way it can succeed -- if he's healthy, rejuvenated and the starter.
Add to those long odds the fact Kansas City is standing firm on a desire to get a second-round pick for Green and the whole deal seems simply ridiculous. It is, in fact, outrageous.
As I've reported, the Dolphins have offered a seventh-round pick for Green and that would be great but the problem is not so much the gulf between Miami's offer and KC's desire but where the teams will eventually agree the compromise point should be.
Remember the Dolphins don't have a fifth round pick this year, thanks to the failed Joey Harrington experiment. Remember their supposed stash of multiple sixth round picks is a mirage because that extra sixth Miami got for Dan Wilkinson cannot be counted on because Big Baby may never show up in Denver.
Add to this the fact the Chiefs want a draft pick in THIS draft for Green and you have something of a dilemma here. Will KC settle for Miami's lone sixth round pick? Would the Dolphins be so stupid as to give up their fourth rounder?
It says here if the teams somehow come to an agreement, the deal will likely be for a low round pick this year and a conditional pick next year, based on how much time Green actually spends under center in 2007. If he's a backup, the Dolphins maybe give up another sixth or seventh next year. If he's Miami's starter, as indications suggest, then the Dolphins give up a fourth or something along those lines.
Either way, the situation isn't as clean as national outlets are suggesting when they report that the deal is practically done. And, of course, there's the added obstacle that the Lions are also interested in Green. They can give up a fifth for him -- ironically, the fifth the Dolphins gave the Lions for Harrington.
There's also the difficult truth that Carl Peterson, KC's president, typically takes trades down to the wire before actually pulling the trigger. Remember how long it took to trade Patrick Surtain to the Chiefs a couple of years back? This thing might not get resolved until just days before the draft.
That would mean Green misses a Dolphins quarterback school and the upcoming mini-camp prior to the draft. And that would only make an unpalatable situation seem more distasteful.
There's a million ways bringing Green to Miami can fail while there is only one way it can succeed -- if he's healthy, rejuvenated and the starter.
Add to those long odds the fact Kansas City is standing firm on a desire to get a second-round pick for Green and the whole deal seems simply ridiculous. It is, in fact, outrageous.
As I've reported, the Dolphins have offered a seventh-round pick for Green and that would be great but the problem is not so much the gulf between Miami's offer and KC's desire but where the teams will eventually agree the compromise point should be.
Remember the Dolphins don't have a fifth round pick this year, thanks to the failed Joey Harrington experiment. Remember their supposed stash of multiple sixth round picks is a mirage because that extra sixth Miami got for Dan Wilkinson cannot be counted on because Big Baby may never show up in Denver.
Add to this the fact the Chiefs want a draft pick in THIS draft for Green and you have something of a dilemma here. Will KC settle for Miami's lone sixth round pick? Would the Dolphins be so stupid as to give up their fourth rounder?
It says here if the teams somehow come to an agreement, the deal will likely be for a low round pick this year and a conditional pick next year, based on how much time Green actually spends under center in 2007. If he's a backup, the Dolphins maybe give up another sixth or seventh next year. If he's Miami's starter, as indications suggest, then the Dolphins give up a fourth or something along those lines.
Either way, the situation isn't as clean as national outlets are suggesting when they report that the deal is practically done. And, of course, there's the added obstacle that the Lions are also interested in Green. They can give up a fifth for him -- ironically, the fifth the Dolphins gave the Lions for Harrington.
There's also the difficult truth that Carl Peterson, KC's president, typically takes trades down to the wire before actually pulling the trigger. Remember how long it took to trade Patrick Surtain to the Chiefs a couple of years back? This thing might not get resolved until just days before the draft.
That would mean Green misses a Dolphins quarterback school and the upcoming mini-camp prior to the draft. And that would only make an unpalatable situation seem more distasteful.
posted by Armando Salguero at 11:35 AM
Get our feeds
38 Comments:
Armando, we don't always agree, but I'm with you on this one. Right now, we need every single draft choice we can get to "refresh" the team. (I guess CAMueller won't let us use the word, "rebuild," for fear it might crush season ticket sales or offend Jason Taylor.)
Carr has a greater upside than Green, IMHO. Youth is on his side, for one thing. But I suspect his salary demands and cap numbers are something that is scaring off the Dolphins, or at least keeping them on the sidelines at the moment.
We still need to draft a QB like Stanton in the middle rounds as insurance.
If Cpep isn't ready to return to full form by July, shouldn't he be cut?
Nobody is saying much of anything about Cpep's progress, so it would appear that he is not making much progress. And reading the comments from some of the players who attended Jason Taylor's charity golf tournament, it really sounds to me like even the players are worried that Cpep is never going to return to top form. I think he will be a goner before the season begins.
Armando,
Why please tell me are the Dolphins even considering giving up any draft picks, for a QB whose best days are sadly gone though at 37 not surprsing, when David Carr is available for no draft compensation, I say let the Lions have Green, hope the Raiders actually get Carr and we might have a chance at Quinn possibly or at least maybe even Joe Thomas and Stanton later on. As far as Culpepper, I'd love him to recover and be the player he once was but its not looking good, time will tell.
miami really should not pick up anybody over the age of 30 this year. The idea of bringing in free agents works if you're close to getting somewhere, but the Dolphins are just as close to their last place position as they were when the season ended. Trent Green is WASHED up. David Carr is washed up. C-Pep is WASHED up. Cleo Lemon never was.
I said this about their coaching search...Miami should stop taking other people second-hand goods and go and get their own talent. Getting Trent Green, Carr, or sticking with C-Pep won't break an already broken franchise. However, it will set this team back another five years just like Jay Fiedler, Brian Griese, and the rest of the LOSERS that have pretended to play quarterback after Marino left.
Carl Petersen has got a lot of nerve putting that kind of price on Trent Green. Yes, Trent is a Pro Bowl QB. Yes, Trent has thrown for nearly 30,000 yards in his career. However, the man is 37 years old and is coming off a serious concussion. I have a hard time understanding as to how a seventh round draft pick ISN'T fair compensation for this guy. I mean, Trent has at best two years left in the league.
Carl Peterson is nucking futs for putting a "Matt Schaub" price tag on Trent Green. Carl Petersen needs to put down the crack pipe, because that asking price is absurd!
I agree with the absurdity of asking for a 2nd rounder for Green. If he is still so good why are they trying to trade him? I think this is just Peterson playing hard ball and seeing if someone will bite.
Let's leave that to Matt Millen so we can watch more people get chased around the Lion's stadium with fire Millen bags over their heads. I would bet if we just held to our guns we could get Green for nothing because KC is not going to carry him into the season.
Peterson is testing Mueller and Cameron to see if they will allow themselves to get suckered. I say leave it to Millen.
I would be very disapointed in Randy Mueller if they pull the trigger on this trade for anything more than a 7th round pick.
The team is going to lose the additional 6th round pick in regards to Dan Wilkerson and have not been able to trade Olindo Mare yet either.
Sign David Carr and let him compete with Daunte Culpepper and draft a young QB.
I am getting the same sinking feeling that I got after Wanny drafted Eddie Moore in the second round of the draft (Moore's agent told him not to watch the 1st day of the draft b/c he would go no higher than the forth round) and told a nation-wide audiance on ESPN that Moore would make a "great" special teams player. Trading anything for Green is a POOR football decision. If this is a sign of things to come, this team is in serious trouble. Just because the coaching staff has ties w/ Green, does not justify giving up draft picks for a guy who may have 1 maybe 2 years left. If he stays healthy, he will burn valuble practice time with the 1st team offense in camps and practice. However, coming off a major concussion, I doubt Green could stay healty beyond much of pre-season. I'm not that high on Carr, but he could be signed w/o giving up draft picks, he is much younger, and would serve a competent backup if not able to win the starting job. More than losing draft picks for a short term "stiff", I think this move indicated a more problematic philosophy/direction that this front office wants to take this team. This is not a sound decision. If this staff is so hell-bent to have Green on the roster, wait for KC to cut him (he has a very large salary cap hit) and sign him a mentor to a young QB from the draft. To give anything more than a back-up ball boy, is rediculous!
leave green and all the recycles alone draft a qb and go with the junk we got.
Forget Green, get Carr, trade Dante to Oakland, pick Brady or Stanton, Joe Thomas and/or Ginn
The fact that they're even considering Green is disturbing. It signals that Culpepper isn't ready and/or that Mueller and Cameron have no faith in him. Great, another lackluster offensive season coming up...
stanton,stanton,stanton, need i say more.
.......ugh.............
if any dolphins decision maker's happen to look at this blog for the vibe of the fans, please take this to heart
A franchise that thrived with Dan Marino - that is what we were exposed to and thrilled us. Cameron is a great QB breeder - so let him breed someone. We're due for youth/excitement at the QB position. You have 2 decent one's now. Not this draft? Fine, just please stop discarding our draft picks.
Carr or Trent? Brees or Daunte? We have the same scenario as last year, give up draft picks for the injured aging veteran or sign the rising young gun to a multi year contract. Is Carr better than Brees? Hey maybe, if you can put him behind an Offensive line that can actually block. I'm hoping the Dolphins make the right decision this year.
I agree with you, Armando, and everyone else on this blog as well. Green? 37? Coming off a concussion? Kansas City can't wait to part with him? He's a very tough guy to get excited about. When you look at the stiffs we've given up draft picks for over the years--Feeley, Harrington--It's just gotten ridiculous. I'm so shell-shocked by it, that I'd rather go thru a rebuilding year with young, developing QB than take a chance on Green, giving up draft pick in the process.
If the Dolphins want an over the hill QB that was never more than just solid they should sign Brad Johnson. At least Johnson can stay healthy. I'm not big on David Carr. I think he can be successful, but I think it will have to be with a team that has a good offensive line. I think we should stick with the QBs we got and work on adding all the other pieces this year. Better WRs and thus their play and same for the OL will make the QB play better as well.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ARMANDO, SAVE THE DAY ... go over there to Dolphinville and slap someone for talking to this Peterson prick - do something for "la patria". What KC wants for Green is a slap in the face - it is like calling Dolphin management stupid right to their face. KC will undoubtedly and undeniably cut Green eventually. And we all know that Green is a proven QB and if the dolphins decide to go after him after he is cut, I am sure he will be starting in no time even if he misses QB camp school whatever it's called.
Of course I am saying this even though I think that Carr is a better alternative than Green - younger, stronger, more upside at this point in time. Green is one hit away from being a can of cheese wiz. The Dolphins should not be giving away picks like in the past. Please Armando, talk to someone!!!
Why is Miami even worrying about Green. 1st off, the Chiefs GM has lost what little sense God gave him, if he think Trent Green is worth a 2nd round pick. He must think he's still dealing with Spielman. This guy has 1 more year, MAYBE, left and he needs to call it a career. To me, that's not even worth a 7th. Wait for the guy to become a FA and focus efforts on Carr and the draft. What a waste of time this is.
Why isn't David Carr in a DOlphins uniform? There's no trade to speak of. There's no compensation involved. He's a lot younger and a better QB. So why isn't he being courted and signed by now. Buh-bye C-Pep!
guy's m'ando's right,dcarr is obviously likely out of their range financially!he's likely gonna sign some huge deal and the fins can't afford to have him and c-pep at the same time!so if they sign him they have to relese daunte and eat his contract!you have to look at this the right way from managements prospective!i think they really f77ed up by not trading for carr in the first place!
Green makes sense if the dolphins draft a QB, make Green the starter and let the draftee mature into a starter by next year.
Just let Oak, Cle or Minn have them, we can wait till Quinn falls to No. 9.
I could live with a 6th this year and a conditional 6th or 7th next year. Much more than that and i think i'd rather have the picks. But I'd rather have Carr hands down.
Trent Green isn't worth a conditional 7th round pick in next years draft. I'm prefectly happy with Culpepper, Cleo and a young prospect, possibly Stanton from Michigan St. The Dolphins aren't going to be very good this year regardless of who's playing QB. Save the picks! Trading away picks is what got this team in this position in the first place.
As far as Carr is concerned, don't like that deal either unless you cut ties with Culpepper. Everyone agrees a new gun is needed, but adding Carr then drafting a QB would give the Dolphins 4 QB on the roster. Cutting Culpepper or Carr would have a nasty impact on the salary cap. Cleo comes cheat and the draft gets a pass. Besides that, if Carr was such a great deal, why aren't teams figthing to sign him? If the rest of the NFL thouhgt Carr was a good option, somebody would have pulled the trigger already. The fact that no team has yet to even plan a visit speaks volumes about Carr's value. Once again I reiterate, the Dolphins QB situation is going to linger at least 1 more season.
The thing that's interesting following the news is the seeming lack of interest in Carr... I would have thought someone would jump on the guy.
Two things come to mind; He is not viewed as favorably by the coaches and GMs in the league as some of us believed, or he (his agent) is looking for a big pay day that the coaches and GMs don't think he's worth.
Listening to Huizenga it seems he and perhaps other owners are way over the top with these agents. I still don't think his letting a guy sit if he does report on time is viable, but there is obvious frustration with the agents. My point here is that perhaps Carr's agent is on Wayne's bad guy list and that is why he is not drawing as much interest as we expected.
Just heard Cleveland are to have talks about Green, lets hope they get him, just a thought, weren't Cleveland trying to do a draft day trade with Joey Harrington last year, now he's available for nothing they don't want him, mmmn something to be said about Joey I think
Fire Cam NOW! Is he still on vacation?
LOL - so much whining over KC wanting a second round pick for Green. HELLO the guy has a ton of experience and is a PRO BOWL QB. If you want talent you have to pay for it.
CARR MADE A GREAT MOVE!
I am sorry we lost out, but why on earth would he go from one train wreck to another?
The kid is smart and I bet he is starting at some point this season. At worst, he will be starting there next year. They have a strong line, great weapons, play in a joke of a division and conference, smart move.
It is clearer now more than ever just how bad of shape our offense is in. We lose marginal free agent receivers to division rivals b/c we have no QB, still have a terrible o-line, QB cast offs want nothing to do us, we are in SERIOUS trouble.
I just hope our Hoosier coach knows what the hell he is doing.
I don't understand why we didn't even bring him in for a look.
Does anybody know what our offensive line looks like right now? I think that is our No 1 priority going into the draft.
Team failed to get David Carr, no draft pick required. Going after Green just because of no real good reason to get a 37 yr old has been makes no sense. Who is going to block for him? An improved line-no. Who is going to catch the ball? An improved rec corps? no again. KC wants a second rd pick? Only a fool would waste more then a 6th on him. He WAS good at one time and time is not now. If you cannot draft Russel, then there isn't first rd quality in the draft. Rick Mier,,I mean Brady Quinn will not suite the fins unless he falls to 2nd or 3rd rd. This team went 1-7 last yr early because of the team talent not because Trent Green was needed. It will take 2-3 excellent drafts to turn this old, talent thin team around. Trade Chamber too!!
I'm tired of us recycling has been players, especially at QB and losing draft picks in the process. Stick with Daunte and Cleo as his back-up and DRAFT a future star. We are turning into the raiders who don't rely on young talent to stock the team rather we are looking at everybody's garbage!
jc
Ok, Armando, this is ridiculous. We're in the busy part of the pre-draft season, and you haven't written a thing in 2 weeks. You're buddy Jeff hasn't answered a question in 9 days. Will the two of you please just go away, and let the Herald hire reporters who have some passion for their jobs?
Obviously no one on this page has ever done any dealings in business!!! For everyone that is bashing Carl Peterson for wanting a 2nd round pick, all I have to say is get a clue. Peterson knows he won't get this, but knows if he asks for a 6th rounder he won't get anything better than a 7th round pick...its like buying a car, the price is always negotiable. The seller tries to get the highest price possible and the buyer tries to undercut him; eventually they meet on mutual ground. The problem is that Trent, in all honesty, is worth a 5th round pick, which you guys don't have (You have to pay for production). Green was injured last year and wasn't ready to come back, so he looked bad. Believe me, he will get back into the swing of things. From an outsider, I really don't see the Dolphins having many other options. Russel nor Quinn will fall to you because Oakland and the Browns will take both of them. Basically, that means that you will either have to part ways with a 4th round pick, or beef up the deal some how. I think the belief that Peterson will let a guy like Green leave without anything in compenstion for him is absurd. If the trade doesn't happen I have read statements from Carl that lead me to think that he will match Miami's offer and Green will stay in KC. Then who will really be screwed for the next few seasons???
You guys know how I feel about adding Daunte Culpepper. I just don't think renting a 30-year-old player who spent most of the last two years injured is such a great idea, regardless of his history with Miami's coaches and his desire to be in Miami.
There's a million ways bringing Culpepper to Miami can fail while there is only one way it can succeed -- if he's healthy, rejuvenated and the starter.
Andrew said...
Ok, Armando, this is ridiculous. We're in the busy part of the pre-draft season, and you haven't written a thing in 2 weeks. You're buddy Jeff hasn't answered a question in 9 days. Will the two of you please just go away, and let the Herald hire reporters who have some passion for their jobs?
Hey Andrew,
couldn't agree more about Jeff, takes him weeks to answer any questions then he always manages to miss some out, I know we were spoilt abit with Jason Cole but hey cmon alittle effort please! Armando does at least write something every now and again.
GIVE CLEO THE START!!!! HE'S AWESOME!!!! ALL HE NEEDS IS A CHANCE!!!!
Use your picks wisely and I think the Finz will be fine!
Post a Comment
<< Home