The trade market is open for business
Before everyone gets all excited about a trade the Dolphins are about to make, there needs to be a calming disclaimer here that trades in the NFL are not all that common, they are less common when it involves big-salaried players and they don't usually happen until just prior to the draft or on draft days.
Having said all that there certainly is a lot of available talent out there to be acquired through a trade. Think about it, cornerback DeAngelo Hall is available, safety Michael Huff is available, linebacker Jonathan Vilma is available and receiver Troy Williamson is available.
Vilma and Williamson have been given permission by their teams to shop themselves around and they were doing just that at the Indianapolis Scouting Combine the past few days. Hall is being shopped by the Falcons and has said the chances of his returning to Atlanta are, "slim and none."
So should any of these guys interest the Dolphins?
Well, absolutely. Let's talk about Hall. [The fact is all the players mentioned here have issues that make them less attractive to their current teams and not necessarily attractive to Miami, but of these Hall is clearly the most talented and accomplished player.]
Hall is unhappy in Atlanta because he found out the new regime doesn't think that highly of him. The new GM and coach apparently realize Hall comes with some warts and most of those involve attitude and locker room leadership issues. So the guy probably needs a change of scenery.
And that is where the Giants are becoming involved. They are quite interested in Hall. But that is also where the Dolphins should at least test the waters. Please! As has been posted earlier here, the Falcons have the third overall pick in the coming draft and have a strong desire to add a franchise quarterback.
Matt Ryan of Boston College is really the only so-called franchise QB that will be drafted in the top 5-10 slots. It would make sense for the Dolphins, who are eager to trade out of the top pick, to act like they love Ryan and convince the Falcons he's their guy.
That might cajole the Falcons to make a trade with Miami for the first overall selection and guarantee them Ryan. Obviously, however, the Falcons would have to give up something more to get that first pick.
How about Hall?
The positives are numerous: Hall is a play-making cornerback and the Dolphins don't have any of those. He's a proven player that doesn't come with the questions that rookies come with. It would bring the Dolphins two players for the price of one because the Dolphins still get Atlanta's first pick and that pick would bring a player that is still a difference-maker because the No. 3 pick is still supposed to provide that.
The negatives? Well, Hall has that attitude issue. And he is unsigned beyond 2008 so the Dolphins would have to assure themselves of being able to sign the guy for the long term because who wants to trade for a guy and have him only one season, or two if they use a franchise tag on him? And by the way, signing Hall wouldn't be easy because the guy would likely want to be among the highest paid corners in the NFL which right now means a salary of no less than $9 million per season and probably as high as $12.2 million per season, which is what Nate Clements got last year.
Sorry, but that's what it costs to get a guy with 17 interceptions in four seasons.
It is a lot for any player and there is risk, but you know what? Hall is 24 years old and it is about time the Dolphins do something audacious, like bringing a difference-maker to the locker room.
Having said all that there certainly is a lot of available talent out there to be acquired through a trade. Think about it, cornerback DeAngelo Hall is available, safety Michael Huff is available, linebacker Jonathan Vilma is available and receiver Troy Williamson is available.
Vilma and Williamson have been given permission by their teams to shop themselves around and they were doing just that at the Indianapolis Scouting Combine the past few days. Hall is being shopped by the Falcons and has said the chances of his returning to Atlanta are, "slim and none."
So should any of these guys interest the Dolphins?
Well, absolutely. Let's talk about Hall. [The fact is all the players mentioned here have issues that make them less attractive to their current teams and not necessarily attractive to Miami, but of these Hall is clearly the most talented and accomplished player.]
Hall is unhappy in Atlanta because he found out the new regime doesn't think that highly of him. The new GM and coach apparently realize Hall comes with some warts and most of those involve attitude and locker room leadership issues. So the guy probably needs a change of scenery.
And that is where the Giants are becoming involved. They are quite interested in Hall. But that is also where the Dolphins should at least test the waters. Please! As has been posted earlier here, the Falcons have the third overall pick in the coming draft and have a strong desire to add a franchise quarterback.
Matt Ryan of Boston College is really the only so-called franchise QB that will be drafted in the top 5-10 slots. It would make sense for the Dolphins, who are eager to trade out of the top pick, to act like they love Ryan and convince the Falcons he's their guy.
That might cajole the Falcons to make a trade with Miami for the first overall selection and guarantee them Ryan. Obviously, however, the Falcons would have to give up something more to get that first pick.
How about Hall?
The positives are numerous: Hall is a play-making cornerback and the Dolphins don't have any of those. He's a proven player that doesn't come with the questions that rookies come with. It would bring the Dolphins two players for the price of one because the Dolphins still get Atlanta's first pick and that pick would bring a player that is still a difference-maker because the No. 3 pick is still supposed to provide that.
The negatives? Well, Hall has that attitude issue. And he is unsigned beyond 2008 so the Dolphins would have to assure themselves of being able to sign the guy for the long term because who wants to trade for a guy and have him only one season, or two if they use a franchise tag on him? And by the way, signing Hall wouldn't be easy because the guy would likely want to be among the highest paid corners in the NFL which right now means a salary of no less than $9 million per season and probably as high as $12.2 million per season, which is what Nate Clements got last year.
Sorry, but that's what it costs to get a guy with 17 interceptions in four seasons.
It is a lot for any player and there is risk, but you know what? Hall is 24 years old and it is about time the Dolphins do something audacious, like bringing a difference-maker to the locker room.
posted by Armando Salguero at 12:49 PM
Get our feeds
52 Comments:
HALL WOULD BE PERFECT FIT IN MIAMI!!! THROW THEIR PICK, HALL AND A 3RD OR 4TH AND WHAT MORE CAN YOU ASK OF GETTING A TOP DB AND STILL BE ABLE TO ADD PICKS DEPENDING HOW MUCH THEY ARE IN LOVE WITH RYAN LETS HOPE THEY ARE AND MAYBE EVEN GET THEIR 2ND ROUND PICK TOO !!!!
Hey A.S. I like your thoughts on Hall, but...what about the rumblings now after McFadden ran a blistering 40 time? With the way he ran it should improve the value of our pick enough that if we did decide to trade with Atlanta we could get more than just Hall and their #1. Like their 2nd rounder OR an extra pick next year. Shefter was talking about Dallas offering Barber and their two #1's for the rights to McFadden. I would like to see us trade with Atlanta, and get Hall w/their #1 and #2. They take Ryan. St Louis takes one of the Longs, and we then trade the #3 for Barber, their two #1's, and a future pick...say a 2nd. We'd end up with Hall, Barber, two #1's, and a future 2nd! That would be 5 players for one spot...two of which are proven in the NFL already!
JinVA
When I first heard the news about Hall's availability (early LAST WEEK!), I immediately thought what you wrote, Armando- and almost in those exact same words ;o)
So, enough with the teasers already! It's killing me to wait for FA day. Let's get Faneca and Flozell the hotel, trade with the Falcons and lock in either C. Long or Ellis with that 3rd pick. If we get that much, all other picks and FA pick-ups will be gravy as far as I'm concerned.
What about QB, you say? Judging from the talk of QB talent in draft, its no better than Beck so if you want to upgrade it'd probably be in FA. But, our running game and the defense we'd have with Long/Ellis, Hall, JT and company helps the QB alot. And if we take a big/strong receiver in FA or draft, the QB dilemma decreases significantly, don't you think?
If Atlanta doesn't think highly of him why should we? Let's stop all the specualation....just keep the pick and take one of the Longs.
I'd like to consider a trade with the Raiders for Michael Huff and the 4th pick for the first overall. I've read that Al Davis would Love for McFadden to slide to #4, but McF helped things by running 4.33.
That is probably too much for the Raiders to give up, but maybe it will heat things up just a little to help us out of the 1st OA pick.
If we stay #1, then Long (either one) is who I take at this point in time.
Don't think it will happen. Read one article that stated Ireland was taught not to go after players with character issues. That being said I would entertain dropping down to their slot and taking their two and another pick if they're desperate. If the grocery shopper and Ireland live up to the hype I think we'll get a decent corner in the draft a lot cheaper.
Make that 6 picks for our #1.
Atlanta's 2nd.
Dallas's two 1sts, and future 2nd
Hall and M. Barber
JinVA
I agree with Anonymous...get as many young proven players ie Barber & Hall, and draft picks as possible for the #1 pick!
9/11 was an inside job
checkout wtc7.net watch the collapse videos
I agree with you, Mando. Take a chance, Columbus did.
Hey Chuck...Ireland was taught by who? Parcells...who's had LT, MEshaun, and Terry Glenn?
JinVA
DeAngelo Hall would upgrade our secondary right away and then we could trade the No. 3 pick to Dallas, because they want McFadden, for Barber and their two No. 1s. That way we get four players for our one pick, with two of those already being NFL stars.
If the Dolphins have any smarts, they start talking to people about this right now.
So Armando, are you saying there will be a trade?
I really don't see it happening. From what I've read in various sources, the risk and the price for a number one pick is too high and most NFL teams are not willing to make that kind of jump/trade.
Besides, Atlanta wont have to make that trade since Matt Ryan will fall right to them. The Dolphins aren't going to take him (after taking Beck last year) & the Rams already have a franchise QB.
I say the odds are better that we wind up with Williamson before we get DeAngelo Hall. Going from one rebuilding program to another, wouldn't make sense for Hall. Hall winds up with the Giants.
Altanta trade Hall to Giants get
31st pice, trade 31st and 3rd to Tuna for 1st pick!!!
Or Atlanta trades Hall for the 31st pick of the Giants and keeps it to pick ahead of the Dolphins and takes Flacco.
Flacco won't be there, his stock is moving up to the middle of the 1st round.
Either way, I believe the Falcons are in a position to be calling all the shots (not the Dolphins).
At the 3rd pick they can choose to pick Matt Ryan or take Mcfadden. They also have the option to trade the Mcfadden pick to the Cowboys for their two first round picks. Thay way they'll end up with three first round picks (including the Hall trade to the Giants).
I'd love to see that #1 pick go to Cleveland for Brady Quinn. The Browns just signed Anderson to a long term deal, and with 1 year of backup duties under his belt (along with a couple of impressive preseason games), Quinn is a safer choice than Matt Ryan. Plus, you don't have to give him $40mil guaranteed.
I don't know if Cleveland would go for it, but going into camp with Beck and Quinn would be worth the #1 overall pick, in my opinion. We wouldn't be worrying about QB for a long time...
How about the Raiders, Al Davis needs to jump start that franchise, and the best way to do that is to get Howie Long's son on board. The Raiders have the #4 pick in round one as well as 4th and 6th pick in round two.
I just hope we dont actually consider trading for williamson, that dude sucks something awful and im guessing the vikings will want a lot for him considering they used a 1st round pick on the guy
Ok AS, how about trading the pick with Atlanta in exchange for their oick and Hall, and picking Jake Long, not Chris Long. And in all reality since the Cheaters (err Patriots) forfitted their 1st, the Dolphins have the 32nd pick in the draft which is the equivilant to a 1st round and use that to grab Joe Flacco. Then lest get some D with the other 2 2nd rounders we have.
I love the idea of trading down to either #3 or #4, picking up a player and still drafting top 5.
DeAngelo Hall would do nicely.
BUT just say NO to Troy Williamson.
I already get sick enough watching Hagan/Martin/etc drop passes.
That guy is terrible for drops. He was drafted that high strictly because of his 40 time. He cant catch. at all.
Ok so if Hall is going to cost between 9-12 million after this year then why bother trading for him? You can spend that same money on Signing Asante who doesn't have all of the attitude problems that Hall has. Its also below value. But hey if the Falcons want to trade Hall to the Giants for their #1 then ship the #1 they got to us to move up i'm fine with that. Hall is a complete thug and isn't worth the money he will ask for.
There is a fine line, however, between audaciousness and out and out stupidity. No matter how talented a player is (which certainly applies to Hall), they do not deserve top dollar unless they also can display professionalism. If Miami makes the trade, I hope they first lock him down to a long-term contract that includes incentives if he can avoid melting down like he did against Carolina last year... and severe penalties if he cannot.
Anonymous Wazzu Dolfan said...
I'd love to see that #1 pick go to Cleveland for Brady Quinn. The Browns just signed Anderson to a long term deal, and with 1 year of backup duties under his belt (along with a couple of impressive preseason games), Quinn is a safer choice than Matt Ryan. Plus, you don't have to give him $40mil guaranteed.
What do you see that 20 other teams didnt last year. He dropped that far for a reason and you want to give up a # 1 pick??
i think we should look into trading the first pick to atl for hall and there 1st round. then turn around and trade atls pick for dal 2 firsts and 3rd. if we do that it will give us 6 picks in the first day. or drop hall and take a 2nd round from atl. if so that would give us 7. 2first 3seconds and 2thirds. of course that is if st louis doesnt take mcfadden
Armando,
You are also violating the Randy Moss rule. You never trade for a player with huge a character problem if your team is awful.. Could the Giants handle Hall? Yeah probably for at least a year.. they will win some games and they are the SB champs. Miami will lose a lot next year and Hall won't be happy so Hall will be a huge problem.
Not to mention CB is an overrated/overpaid position. You are better off with a stacked D-line/lesser corners than you are the other way around. Just look at Denver. Champ is great but they can't put pressure on the QB. NYG? They aren't exactly stacked at the CB position with an old Madison, a weak CB in webster and a young guy (could be good.. but still a rook) with Ross.
Second: Why on earth would the Dolphins trade the #1 pick for Quinn? Less risk than Ryan? How is that? Did I miss the games that Quinn started to show that he wasn't a risk?
Wow. I'm sorry but you idiots who say we should trade our TOP pick for Hall really need to think about it. You are asking the Phins to give up their first pick in the draft for a DB who has a hot head and continuously is getting beat on deep routes. Even if we'd swap first rounders with a team it's still not worth it. He is good, but not for a first round pick. We need to get a quality D or O-lineman with that pick. Getting a guy like Chris Long can have a positive impact on this team for many years to come.
Screw DeAngelo Hall. He may have some ball-hawking football skills, but he's a ticking time bomb. He's got a very short fuse and is a whiny bitch.
If he comes to Miami, he needs to shut his mouth and play his game or get his ass out of town.
I'm sick and tired of players who feel they are above the game and above the team. I want TEAM players. Maybe I'm wrong about Hall, but he will need to prove me wrong if he becomes a FIN.
Guys.
N o p a s s r u s h =
N o p a s s d e f e n s e.
Despite their overtures to Atlanta, the Giants proved this last season with average journeymen in the secondary.
Go back through every Super Bowl winner and most of the time you will find good servicable corners
and adequate if not hard hitting safeties. Yes a shut down corner is great, but at what cost and expense to other positions on your team?
Best defenses? 85 Bears? With all due respect to guys like Fencik, Duerson etc it was the front 7. Same with Parcells' Giants
who began the 2 deep and made you go 80 yards dink and dunk in front of Carson, Pepper, and LT without making a mistake. Steelers? Mel Blount was nice but make no mistake- the Curtain was the line and Ham and Lambert. Ravens? Yea McCallister and Woodson were nice but the front 7 were knocking QBs out just like the Bears with the rush.
Gimme great up fro and chances are the opposing qb wont even have time to test your corners. I think Parcells and Ireland will spend the money where it counts.
Truth is
Just keep it and take Jake Long. Franchise LT's are not very common and he will anchor that line for 10 years or more. Wining starts up front. We have a franchise RB. A possible solid QB in Beck. You have to give him more that 4 games to grow people. Pick up a WR in the 2nd. Later rounds on some defensive players and some FA pick ups. To pass up on a Jake Long maybe a huge mistake.
Why do so many assume someone drafted in the 1st round will be playing for Dolphins or for any team in the next 10 years? Many things can happen in this league with free agency and injury.
In all seriousness though, I hope the Dolphins draft Jake Long. He has the most upside potential and would help our offense tremendously. I only saw him in the bowl game against the Gators but he definitely had a presence. He's a beast.
A trade would be great and many of you have laid out potential scenarios. I do not think Atlanta will want to trade knowing they can get Ryan at #3. We don't need another young QB with Beck already on the roster. It's more likely we pick someone with experience in free agency to compete for the job.
It's most likely we'll use the #1 pick on one of the Longs. Only time will tell whether it is a good pick.
Wow, this is the kind of minutia--hypo-hypothetical minutia at that--that amazes me that anybody can, at this point in the season, arouse even the slightest interest.
looks like Troy Williamson has been traded to the Jaguars for a second day draft pick. Can't say that I care. We were rumored to be interested though. Maybe now we can trade for Matt Jones.
I'm not 100% sure, but my guess is that most scouts familiar with Hall would say that he is overrated. Assuming Goodman comes back healthy (big assumption though), I'm not sure that Hall would be enough of an improvement to warrant the millions and millions and millions of extra dollars. Michael Huff would be more interesting in my opinion. Williamson is off of the market by the way (Jags).
OK - in a perfect world it would look like this
1) we trade with St. Louis for their 1st and 2nd round pick so they can get Chris Long.
2) We trade with Atlanta for their 1st and 2nd round pick so they can get Ryan.
3) We trade with Oakland for their 1st and 2nd round pick so they can get McFadden.
4) We trade with Kansas for their 1st and 2nd round pick so they can get Jake Long.
5) We take Gholston so the Jets or Patriota don't get him and have No.1, No 2, No.3, No.4 and No. 6 in the second round and no team hast to give up too much to get their player.
The Bills have mentioned that the Falcons, Chiefs, 49ers and 'Fins have expressed some interest in JP Losman. The front-runners appear to be the Falcons and Chiefs. Not sure how that affects the Falcons and Matt Ryan. I personally don't need to see Losman w/ the 'Fins.
Armando
what about Vima? former Cane and outstanding inside linebacker.
Armando,
I think Vilma would be a great addition to team.Former Cane with outstanding abilities as run stopper and coverage guy.If healthy.
I saw the first day of defense in combine coverage. I've changed my mind about C. Long. Gholston is the man! He looked a hell of a lot smoother and more coordinated. Long was very herky-jerky in his motions. He seemed out of control compared to Gholston. Plus, Gholston looks a bit bigger.
Germany Speaking was on to something when he suggested taking Gholston. Trade down while picking up as many picks as possible then take Gholston.
As for Jake Long, evidently the feeling is that OT's are deep this year. Plus, maybe Ireland will sign Flozell the Hotel.
People, we know you love your U, but Vilma DOES NOT FIT the Parcells linebacker prototype.
Still, trading for Vilma would be smart, as compared to trading for Brady Quinn. What is it with you Quinn lovers? PLEASE, tell us WHY you think he can even play. One guy on here called Quinn "less risk" than Matt Ryan. WHY? If Quinn wasn't worth a top-15 pick last year (and he wasn't ... he lasted until #22), then why is he worth a higher pick this year? I mean, unless you're some kind of Notre Dame homer.
Germany Speaking has the right idea. However, if both St. Louis and Atlanta refuse a trade, we should simply forfeit the #1 pick and drop to third (we have that option simply by letting the clock run out on any pick).
#1 is simply too expensive. Atlanta will take Ryan, no matter what, who we don't want and it doesn't matter who St. Louis picks - there are simply too many equivalent #1's that would be fine there - Dorsey, Ellis, the two Long's or even McFadden.
Then we pick at #3 (much cheaper) or trade it for later picks. The #3 is much more tradeable than #1.
Armando - cheers buddy, Hall is exactly what we need. This is exactly what myself and another posted on Omar Kellys' blog a couple of days ago. It's so hard to find a db in the draft its less than 50/50. trade down two spots and land one of the youngest,fasted, and best cb in the league. Oh by the way we get the guy we want in C.Long at 3 anyway. As I stated before Bill - no excuses we have the money!
Is everybody crazy on this site. Now way Atlanta trades that! Or Dallas for that matter. Get serious...
Acquiring MEAngelo Hall (as he is called here in ATL) would be a HUGE mistake. While we were at it, why not trade a second round pick to the Titans for the rights to the Rain man? How much better would we be with Pacman,and MeAngelo on the wings, with Ricky at RB, maybe sign Randy moss, and trade for Chad Johnson. We could rename ourselves the Bengals south. Some of you people like to complain about Ginn's family, you would be praising them in comparison to the crap you will get with MeAngelo. He is a worthless waste of cap room.
I say we trade Ginn for a bag of chips, a moonpie and an RC.
I say we trade Armando for the Giants 7th round pick....that way we can say we traded "Mr. Unintelligent" for "Mr Irrelevant"!
Okay, what are you guys wanting Quinn so bad? Cleveland just signed Anderson to a big contract, so they do not have the confidence in Quinn, so why should we? Also, Beck played behind a cruddyl OL and had no receivers to throw to, when he had time...PLUS, we had no RB. I say we give Beck a chance. I say we don't waist our time with attitude problem in Hall either. Maybe the Cowboys trade would help if we can acquire Barber for insurance if Brown can't fully recover and R. Williams may have another relapse with the Reefer. Then we can let the expert draft OL and DL people for our team.
Also who wants Losman, HE SUCKS!!! I say we trade (move down) our #1 and acquire more picks. Parcells knows how to draft unlike Cameron (Ginn, Jr. #1)? What a joke he was!!
wow what a bunch of morons. who the hell would give you my first round pick (#3 overall)and Hall for a QB they can have @ 3rd pick and pay a little less money for not being #1. get out of the dream world people the dolphins are not going to turn things around overnite...
Dolphins are going to draft OT Jake Long 1st overall, 2nd round they will draft QB Flacco and a CB with the other 2nd round pick.
What do you think of swapping first round picks with Arizona and getting Larry Fitzgerald in return. We get a great reciever tandem have a chance at an o-lineman and they get there running back to replace the edge in Mcfadden and lose 17mil of salary.
Post a Comment
<< Home