Mel Kiper lets loose on the Dolphins, the draft
The latest rumor? That the Atlanta Falcons are so in love with Matt Ryan of Boston College that they would swap the No. 3 overall pick and other considerations with the Dolphins to take him.
By the way, the Falcons won a coin toss Friday morning to win the No. 3 pick. Oakland and KC,, which also finished with 4-12 records are slotted No. 4 and No. 5 respectively.
The trade with Atlanta nonethelss has merit as I've heard mild rumblings from NFL people that Atlanta badly wants a franchise quarterback and Ryan is the only certain guy at that position in this draft. So if that supposed love by the Falcons is true enough that the they would give up this year's second-round pick and maybe another pick next year, I would say the trade will happen.
That's because Miami likes Ryan. But the Dolphins have not yet fallen in LOVE with Ryan as the first overall pick. Anyway, ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper did a conference call earlier this week in which he discussed that topic and others concerning the Dolphins.
What follows is a partial transcript of the call:
On the decision facing Bill Parcells concerning the first overall pick: “He has a decision to make initially about John Beck and if they don’t feel like John Beck’s the right guy moving forward with, then you look at Matt Ryan. I think Matt Ryan is the kind of quarterback that would fit what Bill wants. … You look at what Drew Bledsoe had coming out and you see some similarities there. I think the first question is, if John Beck’s not their guy, the first pick overall - where do you go? Had they drafted Brady Quinn last year -- the previous organization -- instead of Ted Ginn, then they wouldn’t be drafting Matt Ryan. Brady Quinn would’ve been their guy moving forward. But, the fact that they went Ted Ginn and then John Beck obviously puts them in a position that instead of utilizing that pick for another position, now they’re pretty much forced to take Matt Ryan.”
On the elite players in this draft: “If (John) Beck’s not the guy, (Miami) has to take Matt Ryan, but there are guys with equally as good a grade. Glenn Dorsey, (Darren) McFadden, Chris Long, Sedrick Ellis, Jake Long all have grades right in there with Matt Ryan. There are six guys that are a cut above the rest and those are the six.”
On what it will take the Falcons to move into the No. 1 spot: “Atlanta is going to have to give up pretty much everything they’ve got to get Matt Ryan. He means as much to Miami as he does to Atlanta.”
On LSU’s Glenn Dorsey: “When Dorsey is at full strength, he is a dominator. What I like about Dorsey is that he gives you that Ray Lewis mentality. He is so energized and football is all that matters. Everybody around him becomes better when he’s on the field. You saw him play through injuries when very few would have been out there playing. He went out there when most guys would have been in street clothes watching on the field. Dorsey is special in that sense – in his approach and attitude.”
On Arkansas Running Backs Darren McFadden and Felix Jones: “McFadden, I like his skill level. I like his talent. I like how he did against elite teams. I like his versatility. The question I have is that he had some fumbling issues this year. Ball security is critical in the NFL. That’s something he’s going to have to work on and something that showed up this year. He’s not the violent, aggressive runner that Adrian Peterson is, but not many running backs are. He’s not a tackle-breaker like Peterson – well, that’s not his forte. When you look at his all-around capabilities, he’s certainly worthy of being a top-five pick.”
“Felix Jones, same thing. He gives you the game-breaking capability. He’s not a guy who will carry the ball 25 times a game. Teams that want a feature back will not look at Felix Jones. They’ll look at McFadden or Mike Hart. He’s not a feature back. For Felix Jones, I think Tampa Bay would be a possibility because there he would be a compliment to what they have.”
On picking a running back high in the draft: “I would not move up to get a running back unless it was a case where you saw a guy drop significantly. Adrian Peterson was either the first, second or third guy on everybody’s board and he dropped down to seven. He dropped down to five and nobody did anything. He dropped down to six and nobody traded up to get him. He fell right to Minnesota who had a debate. When you see a Peterson drop to seven to trade up for a running back … you can find a running back in the fourth round as good as in the first. You can pick and choose other positions, but consistently in the NFL you can do that at running back."
On Michigan Offensive Tackle Jake Long: “He became a complete player this year. He was a great run-blocker, destructive run-blocker, a better run-blocker than Joe Thomas of Wisconsin was last year. The consensus opinion this year was, ‘Will he be the pass-blocker he needs to be to become a quality left-tackle in this league?’ He proved this year to be that. With his ability and aggressiveness, the team that would want him the most is Kansas City.”
On Potential NFL Starting Quarterbacks in this year’s Draft: “There are at least 12 quarterbacks that are going to have the chance to be starting quarterbacks at some point in their careers. Josh Johnson (University of San Diego) is one of them. He’s got to fill out a little bit, but he’s got talent. I think he’s the kind of guy in the fourth or fifth round you take a look at. (Andre) Woodson (University of Kentucky), I think that hitch at the top of his delivery, that slow release, causes concern. He’s got ideal size. He powers the ball to any point on the field. He works hard. That delivery is going to cause concern, but he didn’t finish strong either. I started dropping his grade in November. He’s in that second or third round mix. Other quarterbacks that are interesting are Caleb Hanie out of Colorado State … Joe Flacco out of Delaware is a second-round pick at worst.”
On Delaware quarterback Joe Flacco: “He’s very confident and he has that inner-competitiveness. When you talk to him, you can sense that he competes. With his physical tools, you look at him going in the late first or worst second round. Teams that are going to be thinking quarterback -- I think the Chicago Bears would be a perfect opportunity and a great spot for him. In Chicago you need someone who can cut through wind and play in those conditions. He flicks that wrist and the ball jumps off his hand. To me he’s got the best arm of any quarterback in this draft.”
On Hawaii quarterback Colt Brennan: “That Sugar Bowl showed that he’s got to put on some weight. He’s got to get a little stronger and all that, maintain that weight right around 200 pounds, not be at 185-190. That’s the big thing, and the delivery is all over the place. The arm strength is decent. He’s borderline arm strength, but he’s okay, and he doesn’t have the great arm – good enough arm. He’s a guy you would say is definitely good enough. … He competes hard and there’s an awful lot to like about Colt Brennan. In the fifth or sixth round he’ll be a nice choice for somebody, but I think the days of thinking second or third round pretty much ended at the Sugar Bowl.”
A player to watch in this year’s draft: “Another kid that kind of gets lost in the shuffle is Chris Johnson at East Carolina. Keep an eye out for him in the second round. He can return kicks very effectively. He catches the ball downfield exceptionally well. … He moved from a fifth or sixth-rounder in the beginning of the season to second round. He’s a versatile kid with a lot of ability and someone you have to take a good hard look at.”
Pretty good stuff, huh? Your thoughts...
That's because Miami likes Ryan. But the Dolphins have not yet fallen in LOVE with Ryan as the first overall pick. Anyway, ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper did a conference call earlier this week in which he discussed that topic and others concerning the Dolphins.
What follows is a partial transcript of the call:
On the decision facing Bill Parcells concerning the first overall pick: “He has a decision to make initially about John Beck and if they don’t feel like John Beck’s the right guy moving forward with, then you look at Matt Ryan. I think Matt Ryan is the kind of quarterback that would fit what Bill wants. … You look at what Drew Bledsoe had coming out and you see some similarities there. I think the first question is, if John Beck’s not their guy, the first pick overall - where do you go? Had they drafted Brady Quinn last year -- the previous organization -- instead of Ted Ginn, then they wouldn’t be drafting Matt Ryan. Brady Quinn would’ve been their guy moving forward. But, the fact that they went Ted Ginn and then John Beck obviously puts them in a position that instead of utilizing that pick for another position, now they’re pretty much forced to take Matt Ryan.”
On the elite players in this draft: “If (John) Beck’s not the guy, (Miami) has to take Matt Ryan, but there are guys with equally as good a grade. Glenn Dorsey, (Darren) McFadden, Chris Long, Sedrick Ellis, Jake Long all have grades right in there with Matt Ryan. There are six guys that are a cut above the rest and those are the six.”
On what it will take the Falcons to move into the No. 1 spot: “Atlanta is going to have to give up pretty much everything they’ve got to get Matt Ryan. He means as much to Miami as he does to Atlanta.”
On LSU’s Glenn Dorsey: “When Dorsey is at full strength, he is a dominator. What I like about Dorsey is that he gives you that Ray Lewis mentality. He is so energized and football is all that matters. Everybody around him becomes better when he’s on the field. You saw him play through injuries when very few would have been out there playing. He went out there when most guys would have been in street clothes watching on the field. Dorsey is special in that sense – in his approach and attitude.”
On Arkansas Running Backs Darren McFadden and Felix Jones: “McFadden, I like his skill level. I like his talent. I like how he did against elite teams. I like his versatility. The question I have is that he had some fumbling issues this year. Ball security is critical in the NFL. That’s something he’s going to have to work on and something that showed up this year. He’s not the violent, aggressive runner that Adrian Peterson is, but not many running backs are. He’s not a tackle-breaker like Peterson – well, that’s not his forte. When you look at his all-around capabilities, he’s certainly worthy of being a top-five pick.”
“Felix Jones, same thing. He gives you the game-breaking capability. He’s not a guy who will carry the ball 25 times a game. Teams that want a feature back will not look at Felix Jones. They’ll look at McFadden or Mike Hart. He’s not a feature back. For Felix Jones, I think Tampa Bay would be a possibility because there he would be a compliment to what they have.”
On picking a running back high in the draft: “I would not move up to get a running back unless it was a case where you saw a guy drop significantly. Adrian Peterson was either the first, second or third guy on everybody’s board and he dropped down to seven. He dropped down to five and nobody did anything. He dropped down to six and nobody traded up to get him. He fell right to Minnesota who had a debate. When you see a Peterson drop to seven to trade up for a running back … you can find a running back in the fourth round as good as in the first. You can pick and choose other positions, but consistently in the NFL you can do that at running back."
On Michigan Offensive Tackle Jake Long: “He became a complete player this year. He was a great run-blocker, destructive run-blocker, a better run-blocker than Joe Thomas of Wisconsin was last year. The consensus opinion this year was, ‘Will he be the pass-blocker he needs to be to become a quality left-tackle in this league?’ He proved this year to be that. With his ability and aggressiveness, the team that would want him the most is Kansas City.”
On Potential NFL Starting Quarterbacks in this year’s Draft: “There are at least 12 quarterbacks that are going to have the chance to be starting quarterbacks at some point in their careers. Josh Johnson (University of San Diego) is one of them. He’s got to fill out a little bit, but he’s got talent. I think he’s the kind of guy in the fourth or fifth round you take a look at. (Andre) Woodson (University of Kentucky), I think that hitch at the top of his delivery, that slow release, causes concern. He’s got ideal size. He powers the ball to any point on the field. He works hard. That delivery is going to cause concern, but he didn’t finish strong either. I started dropping his grade in November. He’s in that second or third round mix. Other quarterbacks that are interesting are Caleb Hanie out of Colorado State … Joe Flacco out of Delaware is a second-round pick at worst.”
On Delaware quarterback Joe Flacco: “He’s very confident and he has that inner-competitiveness. When you talk to him, you can sense that he competes. With his physical tools, you look at him going in the late first or worst second round. Teams that are going to be thinking quarterback -- I think the Chicago Bears would be a perfect opportunity and a great spot for him. In Chicago you need someone who can cut through wind and play in those conditions. He flicks that wrist and the ball jumps off his hand. To me he’s got the best arm of any quarterback in this draft.”
On Hawaii quarterback Colt Brennan: “That Sugar Bowl showed that he’s got to put on some weight. He’s got to get a little stronger and all that, maintain that weight right around 200 pounds, not be at 185-190. That’s the big thing, and the delivery is all over the place. The arm strength is decent. He’s borderline arm strength, but he’s okay, and he doesn’t have the great arm – good enough arm. He’s a guy you would say is definitely good enough. … He competes hard and there’s an awful lot to like about Colt Brennan. In the fifth or sixth round he’ll be a nice choice for somebody, but I think the days of thinking second or third round pretty much ended at the Sugar Bowl.”
A player to watch in this year’s draft: “Another kid that kind of gets lost in the shuffle is Chris Johnson at East Carolina. Keep an eye out for him in the second round. He can return kicks very effectively. He catches the ball downfield exceptionally well. … He moved from a fifth or sixth-rounder in the beginning of the season to second round. He’s a versatile kid with a lot of ability and someone you have to take a good hard look at.”
Pretty good stuff, huh? Your thoughts...
posted by Armando Salguero at 11:45 AM
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68 Comments:
I think the fins have to take Matt Ryan if they have no trade partner. You cannot go into next season laying the future of the franchise at Beck's feet when there is so much uncertainty around him. If they do trade with Atlanta I would hope for Chris or Jake Long. I'd be happy with either!
Wow. So now you're resorting to recycling other reporters takes instead of reporting your own stuff. What do you actually DO there, anyway?
Kiper is such an egomaniac. HE wanted the Phins to take Quinn to justify his mock draft. The Phins took Ginn and the rest is history, for better or worse. Can anyone tell me exactly what did Quinn do last year, other than make a sports dring commercial, that refutes the Phins' decision to pick Ginn. The fact that Quinn wasn't drafted by another team until the mid 20's is evidence that Kiper was wrong.
A trade with the Falcons for their 1st and 2nd rounder this year and a 2nd next year would be perfect. Then at 3 see if you can trade down some more. See if Dallas is willing to move up. If you can get Dallas to bite for their 2 1's and a 3, you can end up with two 1's and three 2's and two 3's. That's seven players in the top 90! Plus you still have JT as trade bait. You could rebuild the whole defense in one draft. If not, take Chris Long at 3 and be happy with the extra 2. If the trade did go through, I would like to see Miami take Keith Rivers OLB from USC and Philip Merling DE from Clemson.
It cracks me up how Armando gives us the lastest stuff and hands us interesting takes from a draft guru who is on ESPN and somebody actually criticizes that. Armando, I for one, greatly appreciate your work and diligence.
Keep up the great work, buddy.
Good stuff here.
The scenerio of trading with Atlanta for their first and a second round pick would be awesome. That's the third pick in the second round. Pretty good to me. Unless Parcells really thinks Matt Ryan is the real deal, I think you would have to take it. Then, we can get Dorsey or any of the two Longs. And if Dallas wants to get in the mix, maybe we could fix the defense in one draft. Dream scenerio. I atleast have hope now. Slim as it might be.
The scenerio of trading with Atlanta for their first and a second round pick would be awesome. That's the third pick in the second round. Pretty good to me. Unless Parcells really thinks Matt Ryan is the real deal, I think you would have to take it. Then, we can get Dorsey or any of the two Longs. And if Dallas wants to get in the mix, maybe we could fix the defense in one draft. Dream scenerio. I atleast have hope now. Slim as it might be.
Seems like the Atlanta offer would be a no brainer. With a 3rd pick overall in '08 and an additional 2nd round pick, 'phins can still take one of Kipers top 6 players in '08 draft and get a good 2nd round QB like Flacco. The cherry on top is an additional high round pick next year. It's 1972 all over again- Perfect!
Armando-
Here's an offseason project for you to fill the time...
Go back five years on Kiper's and any other "gurus" on their top 32 list. I would love to see an analysis on their "Can't Miss" list.
For all the bitching about missing Brady Quinn in the draft last year, I remember all the hype about Reggie Bush being the running back to end all running backs and Robert Galley as a sure-fire can't miss as well. How'd them Texans do with Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush??
Matt in NC
I think Mel Kiper is the worst draft analyzer in the history of sports. He is consitently wrong about everything and is still pissed at the Dolphins for picking ted Ginn over Brady Quinn because it made him look dead wrong. Now he's talking like Beck is already a bust and that Brady Quinn is a sure thing. Similar to how he was calling Mario Williams a bust after just 1 year and that Reggie Bush was already a top back and the Texans made the biggest draft blunder in history. I'm sick of this guy and don't believe a thing he says will happen because quite frankly it never does.
How 'bout this; For the 'phins 1st overall, Falcons give up there no. 3 overall, their 2nd round this year and instead of a high pick next year they give up Redman! He's a vet QB and I remember he had a few great games in '07. I just checked and he had a 90.4 rating over 7 games with 10 TD's.
So with no. 3 the 'phins get DT Long or Ellis from USC. With the Atlantas 2nd round we can load up on QB with Flacco or take a lockdown CB.
Speaking of CB, anyword on where Daunte Hall might end up. I heard he will be let go by the Falcons.
Love it love it love it. The trade with Atlanta would be fantastic. Then we could take Jake Long at #3, sign F. Adams, and move V. Carey to RG. Sign A. Crumpler at TE. Draft J. Hardy (6'6" WR) with our first #2 (32nd) and take B. Albert (OG), Dan Connor (ILB), or Reggie Smith (CB) with Atlanta's 2nd.
JinVA
What does drafting Beck in the second instead of Quinn in the first have anything to do with whether they choose Ryan or not?
"I think Matt Ryan is the kind of quarterback that would fit what Bill wants."
This would still be true if they had selected Quinn. But then he goes and contradicts himself by saying, "But the Dolphins have not yet fallen in LOVE with Ryan as the first overall pick." If the similarities between Ryan and Bledsoe are so obvious, why haven't they?
"Brady Quinn would’ve been their guy moving forward."
What exactly has Brady Quinn shown this year to merit such an assessment? A team should pick PLAYERS, not POSITIONS. Otherwise, they end up making reaches such as Ryan Leaf.
"I think the fins have to take Matt Ryan if they have no trade partner. You cannot go into next season laying the future of the franchise at Beck's feet when there is so much uncertainty around him."
First, they could avoid this by taking another QB later in the draft. Second, Ryan isn't a clear-cut sure thing, either. If he was, there wouldn't be all this debate on who to take.
"So now you're resorting to recycling other reporters takes instead of reporting your own stuff."
Just what would rather have him do? Ignore other people's opinions about what the Dolphins might do or who they might draft? And if he hadn't written anything about it, then people would be squawking why didn't he inform them about what Kiper thought?
Thanks for the info 'Mando. I 2nd (alright 27th) the opinion that the Atl deal would be great. I do think that St Louis would take Chris Long at #2, who I'd like to see the 'Fins get. We'd have to "settle" w/ Jake Long, who's great & get a top pick in the 2nd. 'Mando, can you tell us who we'll target in FA since everyone is tagging their top corners? I guess we'll draft a CB early in round 2. Can you tell us which 'Fins mgmt people are at the combine? Who they're specifically looking at?
I think Flacco is more a Parcells guy than Ryan. The guy is a Testaverde clone.
This blog is awesome. Armando this is the type of stuff I yearn for in coverage that I don't really see anywherre but here. As KC and the Sunshine Band said, keep it coming...
Kiper is a clown. End of story. His ego is more important to him than the needs of teams. How can he say that Quinn and Ryan are more of a sure thing than Beck? How many games has Beck played in the NFL compared to both of them. To me, that tells me he is ahead of the pack. Matt Ryan just screams Alex Smith.
Forget Matt Ryan. Miami does NOT need a QB. Not this year. No, it's not because I think John Beck is the future (although I think he might be), the reason they don't need a QB this year is that this is a 2 year rebuilding project at least. You could have Tom Brady next year at QB and it won't help one bit. You first need to put the rest of the pieces in place, like a defense that can get off the field on 3rd down. An offensive line that can get you to 3rd and 1. A TE who can make a play. Once you have those things, then the QB is the last piece of the puzzle.
Give Beck a chance to show what he can do again next year. If next year he doesn't start to show you he's your future, then you can look to the draft for another QB, but not this year. Not with so much else that is needed. Take one of the sure bets. Matt Ryan is no sure bet. Maybe there's no such thing as a sure bet, but I think there's a lot smaller risk in taking a Chris or Jake Long than a Matt Ryan.
I like the trade with the Falcons for their 1st and 2nd and 2nd or 3rd next year. Going down further with Dallas is too far. Use Atlanta's 1 to pick one of the Long's and go from there. Dallas's #1 picks are too far down in the first round to have value.
That would be awesome but I don't think it will happen:
1) Chris Long will put up monster numbers at the combine and will be the clearcut No.1 prospect.
Seeing the Giants rack up all those sacks in the Superbowl will set the tone and everybody will want to load the DE position.
Just remember everybody laughing about the Texans when they choose Williams instead of Reggie Brown - nobody is laughing now anymore.
2) Normally the 1st pick is worth 3000 points on the value chart and the 3rd pick is 2000 - Atlantas pick in the 2nd round is worth 520 points so they need next years 1st round or 2nd round pick to to make it even - that is pretty much to give up if you think the Fins will take Chris Long anyway.
Armando can you use your sources out there...and find out if its true that the Falcons are willing to hear trade proposals for Deangelo Hall...as it has been rumored already...If so...I think the perfect scenerio would be Swap first round pikcs...we get D Hall and maybe just their third...
Can you please find out...and maybe write about it in a later date on your blog...Thank you..
I like that trade this years first and second and Deangelo Hall. I think if we trade with Atlanta we need to grab him. We've never had anyone at the cornerback position like him.
I think everyone is forgetting that Eli was in his fourth year and Phillip Rivers hasn't won anything yet. Let's give Beck a chance, that's why Lee was brought in early.
How about Trade with Atlanta for the 3rd pick, their third round pick and DeAngelo Hall. We can fill an imediate need at CB, still get a top lineman (Either side of the ball) and a top 3 pick in the third round. DeAngelo is better than any 1st rounder this year and is still young.
IMHO QB is the biggest hole that the fins need to fill...somehow, someway. I would say go after the best free-agent QB out there and have him compete with Beck for the start. Otherwise trade JT to the Browns for Brady Quinn(QB), Leon Williams(LB and U guy) and a draft pick. Heck throw in Ken Dorsey(another U player) while your at it you can never have to many QB's. I also see Ginn as a perfect fit as a slot receiver/kr/pr type player but we still need a goto #1 receiver like Chambers...Doh he is in San Diego.
By the way:
Thinking about it there will be another scenario more likely: Someone will so fall in love with Chris Long that they will try to trade up to No.1 to get him.
e.g:
Rams 1st and 2nd round would do it for me.
then take Atlantas 1st and 2nd so they can get Matt Ryan.
That would leave us with Jake Long,
and 1st, 2nd, 6th and 26th pick in round 2 - now thats what I call a deal.
And I really like the idea to go after B.Albert with one of those picks and sign F.Adams - that would give us a monster O-line for years to come, because that was our main problem year after year.
And we also could go after DE, LB and CB with the other 3 picks in round 2. Get a quality WR in Round 3 and add Colt Brennan in round 4 as safety blanket.
I am not sold on Matt Ryan. He certainly passes the eye test as a big strong Quarterback, but too often scouts tend to fall in love with big strong-armed passers that never pan out (Leaf, Drunkenmiller, Carr, Akili Smith, Boller, Losman, Schuler, Alex Smith, etc.). He just feels overrated to me.
If the Phins can trade out of the number one overall pick, I think they should do it—even if the value of the trade does not measure up to the “Jimmy Johnson” scale. Especially if they can swap with Atlanta at number three. Chances are excellent that they can still get one of the Longs—legitimate number one overall picks in their own right—at the number three pick. The number one overall pick is such a financial weight around your franchise shoulders for a team that needs not only extra picks, but also cap space as well to rebuild.
At number three, the Phins could still trade back for more picks. Number three is much easier to move than number one. Phins could still find a franchise Left Tackle later in the first round (strong draft year for tackles), and solidify their O-Line for years to come. Plus they would have a handful of extra quality players.
If they can’t move number 1, they should take Jake Long and lock-up the left tackle position on the team for the next decade. Quarterbacks at the number one overall spot are too expensive and risky. History says they fail more often than they succeed.
If Beck is not their guy, then they should move him before draft day to teams that see his value. Although the Phins could not get a second-rounder (Beck’s status last year) in return, they could still probably get a third or fourth rounder. That is better value than having him sit the bench behind another quarterback you may deem as “your guy.” Baltimore needs a young QB and Cam Cameron might be willing to take a guy who already knows his system a little bit. Baltimore’s scouting department (along with Detroit, Carolina, Chicago and Philadelphia) where very high on Beck going into last year’s draft.
"Anonymous Oregon Phin Phan said...
IMHO QB is the biggest hole that the fins need to fill...somehow, someway. I would say go after the best free-agent QB out there and have him compete with Beck for the start. Otherwise trade JT to the Browns for Brady Quinn(QB), Leon Williams(LB and U guy) and a draft pick. Heck throw in Ken Dorsey(another U player) while your at it you can never have to many QB's. I also see Ginn as a perfect fit as a slot receiver/kr/pr type player but we still need a goto #1 receiver like Chambers...Doh he is in San Diego."
I don't know what you're on BUT I WANT SOME!!!!! You think there is any way ANY team would give all of that up for JT? I love him but I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell you. You can charge all the tolls you want, it's like printing money! Thanks for putting a smile on my face
I like Beck, but you need more than one QB. Trade the 1st pick if you can and take Flacco in the 2nd. Atlanta would have to give up more than an there 2nd pick to move up if you go by the book.
Lets get some great linemen up front first,if a quarterback gets rushed,knocked down, and knocked out every time he goes out on the field, then it doesnt really matter who he is. The Fins will never win consistantly....Start with a strong foundation of Blockers....
Falcons deal would be great!Save money still get Dorsey or one of the Longs and there second round pick.SWEET.
For all you Kiper haters, do you:
a) not understand that if the 'phins had taken Brady at #9 last year they would be more committed to him going forward than they are to Beck, regardless of talent? Money and draft position would make it almost impossible for them to give up on Quinn - that's not the case with Beck.
b) really believe that the 'phins are better off with Ginn and Beck than they would be had they selected brady and either Sidney Rice or Steve Smith in the second round? And while you rocket scientists are figuring it out, consider that in addition to how awful Beck looked last year when he played, he's also 3 years older than Quinn, and was supposed to be more "mature" and "ready" coking in. Quinn may or may not pan out, but he's got a LOT better shot than Beck does.
Yeah, Kiper has questionable hair and a high opinion of himself, but his views are as good as anyone else's in terms of the draft. He wasn't exactly alone in questioning the 'phins decision to take Ginn at 9.
Bill Parcells is a wheeler and a dealer. Hopefully he can pull off a double deal with Atlanta and Dallas. This years draft is D-lineman weak but there are good CB and LB prospects throughout. Give Beck another year. Rent a couple of guys for him to throw to and buy a few guys to protect. We'll get some wins and address the weak spots next year...Done
Ginn will be a big playmaker in the NFL, regardless of what Kipper, Kippee, Kipey...whatever says. Who could have guessed that Steve Smith would show up the way he did this year? Brady Quinn has 3 completions in the NFL. He also had 3 receivers over 6'3" and Kellen Winslow to throw to. Not exactly proven. John Beck was thrown into some nasty, nasty situations by a desperate coach on a miserable team.
At this point, it's apples and oranges buddy. Personally, I think Beck can be a starter, maybe Quinn too...but let's give them a legitimate chance to prove it.
Yo, Flatbush...how come you Armando haters come on here and bad mouth the guy. Look, if i don't what the talk radio show host is saying...I TURN IT OFF! Get a job.
Mando, I did the some research and Atlanta has 2 second round picks (Texans), how about #1 for their #1 and both their 2's this year?
I think the Phins Advertise that they are going to take Ryan to bait Atlanta or any other team in making the Switch. If they hold on to it, I think they take Matt Ryan, and then entertain offers for him to a Team that needs a QB... Maybe Atlanta will change their mind when its their time to pick if the Phins don't get any trade offers. But as Far as Atlanta Moving up, I'd do it.. Take the No.3 pick, a second rounder and next years 2nd or 3rd. and/or give us CB Hall with the trade... Yup, sounds good to me..
Mando, who do the Dolphins have interest in regarding free agents???
why is everyone so high on Ryan?? what did he do in college that people think he will be a great franchise QB??? cmon im waiting......give john beck a chance
Mel Kiper STFU!!how can you say the fins will take him...ill be an unhappy fan for 2 years in a row on draft day.
and all this trade talk with atlanta for the #3 pick...HELLO!!! they have to win a coin toss. as a dolphin fan for many years i know that the fins have the worse luck on draft day. so if they lose the coin toss and were stuck with the #1 overall pick id take Jake Long to fill that OT spot for years to come.
For my second round pick id take Flacco or falco how ever you spell it. Didnt he play for "the Replacements"
would love to sign Flozel and im sure the tuna would too.
I agree that Kiper is higher on Quinn than he has reason to be, and seemed to take it personally when the phins went another direction. Had we gone with Quinn we would most likely still be in the same situation with Ryan we are in right now, because there is really no evidence to suggest that Quinn would have performed any better than Beck did over that 4 game stretch--I tend to think he would have done a bit worse. And Ryan is no more of a sure thing than Beck, so why burn a #1 pick on a a position that may or may not already be filled with your guy of the future, rather than on a position (either O or D line) where you DEFINITELY don't have the talent.
Kiper is a tool. Why would Miami take Ryan when there are rumblings he may slide out of the top 20?
Miami has one receiver, One or two OL guys, One aging DL guy, two decent LB's, an injured safety, two injured RB's, and one decent corner. And anyone thinks we should spend $35M on a QB???
We have a prospect at QB that has a KILLER arm, and will probably at least play well enough to help this team compete and win 5 or six games.
doesn't matter if the fins pick first or third (falcons pick), they have to take jake long with their first pick! we won't know if beck is the future if he's always on his back. besides, joe thomas was the #3 pick last year. he was the best o-lineman in the draft last year but he wasn't the best in the big ten. then take chad henne in the second. then take the second coming of maurice jones-drew in the third round....mike hart.
Dolphins, please do not take Matt Ryan #1 overall. He is so overrated I can't determine if he ever was any good. As a second round pick he would be worth a look, but as the first college football player taken in 2008? Can we say Alex Smith? HE played for a mediocre program, put up uneven numbers (loads of yardage, tons of interceptions) and gets accolades based on his toughness and leadership. Um, you can keep those, I'll take talent #1 overall.
Contrary to popular opinion, the Dolphins do not need to take a Quarterback early in the draft. Beck certainly hasn't been given a long enough look, and this TEAM has more holes than the Marlins' lineup. Offload Ryan's expensive contract and bloated cred on the Falcons, build the defensive front seven through the draft and add quality free agents (not named Joey Porter) when they come due.
Kipper loves to bash that Ginn pick but IMO the bigger mistake was taking Ronnie Brown at #2. The fins could have taken Braylon Edwards and then last year there would have been no debate on Ginn as Edwards/Chambers would have been a solid duo so they fins could have taken Willis or Quinn.
Satan pulled the biggest draft gaffe by taking a RB #2 overall when a competitive back could have been taken in later rounds. A back by the way that has not finished one year healthy and has a huge cap number.
Ronnie Brown was a fantastic pickup...heealthy he can easily be an elite back in the NFL. Look at last season before he got hurt, he was leading the lead in yards from scrimmage.
Play the bait and wait game to get Atl's pick and either bait and wait with Dallas or just take Ellis because i'm sure the Rams won't pass up Long with the #2 pick.
look at it this way kiper's kinda helpin us out. by saying miami likes n is going to draft matt ryan is only gonna help and push the atl trade. we need a corner bad i say they throw (atl)d. hall into the deal.or we give the pats a taste of their own medicine n sign randy n astante but he or they may cost to much. then agin we probably gonna get one of the johnson's (key or Chad)
"spree said...
look at it this way kiper's kinda helpin us out. by saying miami likes n is going to draft matt ryan is only gonna help and push the atl trade. we need a corner bad i say they throw (atl)d. hall into the deal.or we give the pats a taste of their own medicine n sign randy n astante but he or they may cost to much. then agin we probably gonna get one of the johnson's (key or Chad)"
DO you ACTUALLY think that ANY NFL Exc. respects Kiper's opinions when ALL he does is get misinformation from those very same Exc's.?
We all can look at the draftees and come up with VERY similar scenarios based on whos picking when and what their needs are and I'd be willing to bet that someone with marginal football smarts could come just as close to the drafts outcome as Kiper..wasnt it Kraft who asked him "Just who in the hell are you to be second guessing our choice of picks anyway?" ???????
I pushed the Idea of bullying Atlanta into the #1 pick over a week ago, here. It would be a great victory for us with the Falcons at three, or four. Even five we would benefit, though all players we would really want would probably be gone by then. I live in Atlanta and
I can say this more wholeheartedly than anything about the Phins since I said we don't want Quinn as our first pick, WE DON'T WANT MEangelo Hall on our team. He is a cancer. He plays selfishly, and has cost the Falcons games. He gets the jump right every once in a while, so gets some INT's, but all in all, he gets burned when it counts, and he is a cancer in the locker room. I would rather draft Matt Ryan than be a part of a trade that brought MEangelo to Miami. Hell, taking MEangelo may be worth another pick for us. Atlanta wants to get rid of him BAD.
My top pick for our needs would be Chris Long. He can play inside, or outside, and is giving signs that he may be better than his pops, who was somewhat ok for a couple of years, or so.lol. I worry about Dorsey's back issues(remember Darryl Gardner?), though Jake Long would be a nice pickup as well.
For you folks that believe Joe Flaco is the answer consider this...He played at Divisio II school after being beat out at a Divison 1 (Pitt). His chance in the spotlight in a championship game was a failure against Appalachian State. My son attends App. St. and watched that game intentently and game away thoroughly impressed with him, particularly his decision making. He reminds me of Jim Druckenmiller...big strong guy, stong arm who doesn't really have a feel for the game. Be careful of those type players....
you know although i would love to see the trade w/ atlanta for the swap of 1's and their #2 and #2 next year... its quite posible that thats not even an option... rememeber they still have to go into the coin flip today... so before we play gm w/ a pick. lets wait to see which pick it is
-- CJ
d'angelo hall, a 1st and 2nd would be a good deal. hall is mouthy, but look at the staffs his been with. parcells and co. will not let him be a problem. we could take one of the guys we need and pay him a 3rd pick salary instead of a first. i think we hype picking ryan on every tv show, in every corner of the combine. talk to his agent. make other teams want him.
clarkbar84
you say we've never had a corner like hall?? we had madison and surtain. if we had a running game and a decent QB back then we could have had a title or 2.
OK, for all the "experts" I think we all remember the last time Miami picked a QB in the 1st round. It turned out pretty well, no? And for all those "experts" crapping on Ryan's college stats, here are the college stats for the one and only Dan Marino during his four years at Pitt.
Marino's College Stats
Year Att Comp Pct. Yds TD INT
1979 222 130 .586 1680 10 9
1980 224 116 .518 1609 15 14
1981 380 226 .595 2876 37 23
1982 378 221 .584 2432 17 23
Compare this to Matt Ryan's stats.
Ryan's College Stats
Year Att Comp Pct. Yds TD INT
2004 71 35 .493 350 2 3
2005 195 121 .621 1514 8 5
2006 427 263 .616 2942 15 10
2007 654 388 .593 4507 31 19
Should we then compare the offensive talent that was surrounding these two players during their time in college?
Pitt Off Players Drafted (1-7 rds)
1982 1 OL
1983 2 OL, 1 QB, 1 RB,
BC Off Players Drafted (1-7 rds)
2007 2 OL
2008 1 QB, 1 OL (projected)
So, in theory, they were surrounded by the same NFL level talent on Offense and Ryan put up the better numbers.
>This blog is awesome. Armando this is the type of stuff I yearn for in coverage that I don't really see anywherre but here. As KC and the Sunshine Band said, keep it coming...
Gay.
No way the fins should take Ryan. Trade with Atl for the third pick and there second rd pick. Maybe even the last pick of the first round if they trade Deangelo Hall to the Giants for there first round pick as rumored. Throw in next years second or third round pick and Im satisfied. That way the fins will have in essence three first round picks (because of New England forfeiting there pick), a second, and a high third (Damn that Trent Green trade costing us the high fourth). Even better if we can swing a trade of JT for somebodies second or third rd pick. That would give us six picks of the first 90 players taken which would be amazing for our rebuilding effort.
With those six picks the fins should use the first pick on either Long the Rams didnt take. I would prefer Chris Long since this draft is so rich on good left tackles. Plus he could step in right away for the traded Jason Taylor.
With the 31st pick of the first round we should take Flacco who is hopefully still available. He is the best QB prospect of the draft. Big, strong arm, and killer mentality. Now the fins would have two QB prospects with the same financial investment as taking a QB with the first pick of the first round. Two choices is always better than betting it all on one guy. Plus two guys competing makes the players raise there game.
With the 32nd pick (assuming the fins got Chris Long) I would take tackle Jeff Otah or if he is not available Gosder Cherilious. Gosder's size might be more to Parcell's liking anyways.
With the second round pick (57)aquired from San Diego I would take DT Pat Sims if he had fallen that far or DT Joseph Bryant a huge big body perfect for the 3-4.
With the third round pick (64) MLB Jerod Mayo who should still be available at that point. He could step right in for the departed ZT and he is a bigger body which Parcell's likes.
With the other third round pick from the hopeful Jason Taylor trade I would go CB Terrell Thomas. A quick corner with height who could match up against taller receivers.
Since there is no fourth round pick with the fifth round pick
(128) I would go with G Mike McGlynn. You can never have too many OL prospects and the fins are sorely lacking in that area.
Sixth round (160) I would take TE Kellen Davis a big strong TE that we so desperately need. Sort of like a Kevin Boss.
Seventh round (192) I would go with RB Jacob Hester a pounding back that could keep the wear and tear off Ronnie Brown carrying the ball every down.
As for any supplemental picks I would flush out the roster with a WR possibly DJ Hall or another linebacker since this draft is so deep with them like Ben Moffitt. He will be a steal for somebody in the seventh round. Plus with such a deep draft there are plenty of possibilities of picking up sleeper undrafted players. Project players to flush out OL, DL, and to contribute on special teams.
With that type of draft this team would get a huge jump on rebuilding. Six possibly seven starters from day one of the season. As far as free agency I hope the fins keep it quite. Really rebuild and let all the new young players play and grow. Use the money to sign all the draft picks and lock them up for a while.
No way I would sign either Faneca or Flozell. Both guys are entering their twelveth season and wont be around when the fins finally get competitive again. As far as Asante I am against that as well. Will Allen is way underrated and Goodman, Daniels, Lehman, and draft pick Thomas would be adequate. If Yeremiah Bell comes back healthy and with Jason Allen developing we seem decent at safety. The only free agents I would pursue would be a veteran wide receiver like Donte Stallworth. The fins have the money for Fitzgeralds huge contract but I wouldnt want to give away any draft picks to get him. The one free agent I would pursue big time would be Lance Briggs. He is young enough to warrant big money and would bring much needed speed to the fins defense. Briggs, Porter, Crowder, and rookie Mayo would be a solid foundation to the defense with Chris Long reaking havoc on the DL. I would also bring in Todd Collins to QB until either Flacco or Beck were ready. Collins wouldnt cost much and just wants to start. He would be filler until the young OL developed.
With this foundation and with two more years of solid drafting I think I could see Flacco leading us to a wild-card by 2010. God I love thinking about the draft. Hopefully I am accurate about the fins loading up on picks and not taking Matt Ryan. I dont want to be crying for days again like last year when the fins drafted Ginn. I was right about the crappy season and the utter incompetence of CamMoron but that was too easy. Oh well, hopefully the future is brighter keep the faith my fellow fin fans. Edswood out
Oh yeah I forgot Armando's blog rules. This is the kind of shite we want Armando. Keep it up.
"IMHO QB is the biggest hole that the fins need to fill...somehow, someway. I would say go after the best free-agent QB out there and have him compete with Beck for the start. Otherwise trade JT to the Browns for Brady Quinn(QB), Leon Williams(LB and U guy) and a draft pick. Heck throw in Ken Dorsey(another U player) while your at it you can never have to many QB's. I also see Ginn as a perfect fit as a slot receiver/kr/pr type player but we still need a goto #1 receiver like Chambers...Doh he is in San Diego."
Yeah! This isn't over yet — we can STILL get Brady Quinn, the greatest quarterback in NFL history! And wow, we could get not one, but TWO players from the U! Sure, we need Ken Dorsey -- he may not be an NFL-caliber player, but he went to the U!
Does anyone really think that Brady Quinn would have done something that Beck couldn't have done with that team last year?
The only thing Quinn has on Beck is a few pounds in the bench pres. And he's only doing that for endorsements. Mark my words, Brady Quinn is the next Brian Bosworth.
Wouldnt it take more to move from the third pick to one? Remember Eli Manning was drafted with the first pick by San Diego and was then traded to the giants for Phillip Rivers (4th pick) Believe the giants gave them Rivers,3rd round pick, and the following years 1st (drafted shawn Merriman) and 5th round pick.
If the falcon gave their 1st, 2nd, and next years 1st round pick for matt ryan!that would be sick. Lets just hope Matt Ryan has an unbeliveable workout
The way the draft chart has changed we would never get as much for swapping picks as the Chargers did a couple years back. I think the most we would get is a second this year and a second next year with possibly a fifth this year. With as many players as the fins need I would take it.
Just want to clarify my comment on Joe Flaco...."My son attends App. St. and I watched that game (Division II championship) intentently and came away thoroughly UN-impressed with him".
He was not very good in a high profile game at his level. I wouldn't waste a high draft pick on him....
Interesting comments on Flacco. I still think with the proper coaching that his incredible tools can be harnessed. Size and a cannon arm just cannot be duplicated. If he is a total dumbass it will come out in his Wonderlic score like with Vince Young. If that is the case then I will retract my statement to draft him. If he does have a brain then I think the physical characteristics and mentality just cant be ignored.
Not sure if someone has pointed this out, as the comments kind of went on and on for this one, but Atlanta DOES have TWO second round picks this year. I would think both of those picks to swap #1's would be plenty. We'd drop just two slots, and still get either Chris Young, one of the DTs (if the new coaches feel Dorsey or Ellis can play in a 3-4), or perhaps a solid OL. (Ryan Clady from Boise State is better than Jake Long, by the way.)
If Atlanta wants Ryan, that's the price I'd put on it.
What is everyone smoking!? Atlanta needs about 15 starters. Why the heck would they trade up? If anything, Atlanta will trade down. This speculation is total garbage.
The Fins needs are many and there is no clear choice at #1. They need to rebuild both the OL and DL. I hope they can trade down a few spots, get more draft picks and still pick up a sure Pro Bowl lineman in this year's first round. We can only hope!
At least we know the Tuna will not waste our picks like last year!
Enough, We need a OL or a DL first before we worry about the overpaid so called skilled players, what happens without a line? you loose the super bowl, oh yea
Atlanta would be foolish to trade up for Ryan, as the Dolphins aren't going to take him anyway, and neither will St. Louis. If the Phins can't trade down, they WILL take Chris Long. The Rams will then take one of the tackles (Ellis, Dorsey or Long), leaving Ryan at #3 for the Falcons. All this talk of a trade is a waste of time. There is no chance what-so-ever the Phins pass on Chris Long if they can't trade down.
Scott
I root for Miami and anybody that plays the Jets or the Crimson Tide!
the dolphins need to shake up the world and trade Jason Taylor for Chad Johnson!!!!
Kiper is just dead wrong on almost everything he says. He just had to bring up the point about if Miami had taken Quinn over Ginn. He has to get over himself and pay attention to all the ridiculous points he is making. I think there is no way they take Matt Ryan, I actually think there is no way they take anyone other than Jake Long. John Beck is a 2nd round pick who had a great college career, give the kid a chance on a decent team before declaring him a bust. A guy like Jake Long doesn't come around to often, with his size and talent at Left Tackle. Just look how much Joe Thomas helped the Browns last year.
"I actually think there is no way they take anyone other than Jake Long. John Beck is a 2nd round pick who had a great college career, give the kid a chance on a decent team before declaring him a bust. A guy like Jake Long doesn't come around to often, with his size and talent at Left Tackle. Just look how much Joe Thomas helped the Browns last year."
Most logical comment! QB's, RB's are only as good as the O-Line!
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