Why Jason Taylor and not Zach Thomas
As many of you know, I wrote a column in The Herald today suggesting the Dolphins should trade Jason Taylor. The column: http://www.miamiherald.com/1190/story/241141.html
Anyway, reaction has been mixed with some fans calling me names on the Internet they wouldn't have the courage to call me in person. Other fans are understanding that, nothing personal, but football business is sometimes cold and the Dolphins need to do drastic things to get better.
Anyway, as you might notice in the column, there is no mention of Zach Thomas. None. Miami's second-best player is not mentioned in a trade scenario possibility for one simple reason: The Dolphins wouldn't get value in return.
While Taylor could fetch a first-round pick or multiple second-round picks, Thomas doesn't have the same value on the trade market. First he plays a position that is easier to fill either in the draft or free agency so he's not as valuable as a pass-rusher.
Secondly, Thomas is one year older than Taylor and his contract expires one year before Taylor's so his shelf life is shorter. Thirdly, Thomas is an over-achieving, high-RPM, film room addict. He is not prototypical in stature, weight or speed. So teams would be less likely to give up very much for him.
Zach's worth to the Dolphins is simply much higher than his worth on the open market. So he stays -- which can be either fortunate or unfortunate for him, depending on how you look at it.
Your thoughts?
Anyway, reaction has been mixed with some fans calling me names on the Internet they wouldn't have the courage to call me in person. Other fans are understanding that, nothing personal, but football business is sometimes cold and the Dolphins need to do drastic things to get better.
Anyway, as you might notice in the column, there is no mention of Zach Thomas. None. Miami's second-best player is not mentioned in a trade scenario possibility for one simple reason: The Dolphins wouldn't get value in return.
While Taylor could fetch a first-round pick or multiple second-round picks, Thomas doesn't have the same value on the trade market. First he plays a position that is easier to fill either in the draft or free agency so he's not as valuable as a pass-rusher.
Secondly, Thomas is one year older than Taylor and his contract expires one year before Taylor's so his shelf life is shorter. Thirdly, Thomas is an over-achieving, high-RPM, film room addict. He is not prototypical in stature, weight or speed. So teams would be less likely to give up very much for him.
Zach's worth to the Dolphins is simply much higher than his worth on the open market. So he stays -- which can be either fortunate or unfortunate for him, depending on how you look at it.
Your thoughts?
posted by Armando Salguero at 10:54 AM
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70 Comments:
Agreed, and with the Defensive Player of the Year pedigree, Jason would command not only more, but far more, in the free agent market.
Thanks Armando, for being honest enough with the fans to prepare them for what may, indeed, happen.
Dark days indeed.
Go Dolphins!
DrumFinFan
Good points, Armando. Thomas would not fetch value, of course WE'D rather keep the DE and trade the LB but it just wouldn't work.
As far as Taylor goes - I'd need to see more than a 1st. A 1st and 3rd would get it done. Of course, that would require our scouts/gm/whoever is calling the shots to actually draft some solid players with the picks we net.
Yes, I am so far "underwhelmed" by our draft class. I know it's early but Patrick Willis is currently lighting it up in San Fran, and I believe Okoye had two sacks on Sunday? Those, IMO, were the two "value" picks available when we drafted. Okoye matched more of a need for us so I'd have preferred him to Willis or Ginn.
Continuing on value, "reaching" for need is a fool's errand IMO. So we took Ginn this year, and let's say we knew Okoye and Willis were better, but hey, we really need to rebuild the offense. So Ginn is the pick. So next year, we'll be in the opposite position. We'll probably go in looking for someone else, and there will be an awesome receiver available, but we just spent last year's pick there so hey - let's again take the lesser player. And so the cycle continues.
The lesson - IMO - is you MUST ALWAYS take the best player available in the draft, especially in round one. It's difficult to find good players period. It's even moreso difficult to find good players at the position you are currently seeking to fill.
Sorry about the "novel", but this does apply to the trade - because if we want draft picks we sure better learn how to draft solid players, or we'll end up giving Taylor away and netting Jamar Fletcher and Eddie Moore with the picks.
First of all, Mando, football, alas, is not like baseball. Teams that trade players rarely obtain equal value in return. When was the last time an NFL team ceded a first-round draft pick for a star player, for example? Hershel Walker, perhaps? A cautionary lesson to every GM.
And Jason Taylor is worth far more to the Dolphins in his leadership alone than the multiple second-round draft picks he likely would command in return-- to say nothing of the 2-3 productive years of football Taylot has remaining.
In fact, I'm not sure I would endorse trading him even if some team was foolish enough to cede a first-round draft pick in exchange-- not while Randy Mueller is in charge of Dolphins' personnel decisions.
Thus far, not a single personnel choice of the Cameron-Mueller regime inspires confidence:
1) Not Trent Green over DC
2) Not Martin over McMichael
3) Not Ginn-Beck over Brady
4) Not Joey Porter
5) Not Satele at Center
6) Not featuring Jesse Chatman over Ronnie Brown
7) Not failing to find replacements at DL for David Bowens, Kevin Carter, Jeff Zgonia
8) Not their snub, thus far, of Ricky Williams
Given this record of suspect decisions and proven ineptitude of the Mueller-Cameron regume, how could any self-respecting Dolphins fans condone their trade of the Dolphins best player? Does anyone think they would succeed in obtaining commensurate value or succeed in utilizing its fruits to rebuild the franchise?
Trading JT at this point would shout to the rest of the team that the coaching staff has given up on this season and is shifting into rebuilding mode for future seasons. Outsiders might be willing to scuttle this season and bet the farm on future seasons. I don't think anyone in the locker room is ready to give up before we've even played our first division rival.
Not sure, but it was last year or the year before that Deion Branch drew a first round pick from the Seahawks, and I think it would be hard to find anyone who thinks Branch is on par with Jason Taylor.
First off, lets not push the panic button just yet. We're 0-2 and we lost to two non-conference, non-divisional opponents. Okay, so what the team displayed on the field the last two weeks doesn't inspire confidence. However, we all knew in our heart of hearts that this Dolphins team was not Superbowl bound, not even playoff bound. BUT...if the team CAN turn things around and start winning its divisional games, chasing a wild card spot is not out of the question completely. At least that will make things interesting.
As for the whole "trade Jason Taylor" thing....at this point, does he even WANT to be traded? I think we'd be losing a HUGE leader on defense. Honestly, what would we get for him? If we trade him to a team that has Superbowl aspirations and we get their first rounder, that means we get to pick late in the first round. All the top dogs are gone by then. Remember where we drafted Taylor to begin with...in the middle rounds. You build THROUGH THE DRAFT.
At this point, assuming he wants to stay, lets just keep Taylor and keep building up this team with young, speedy talent from the draft. I'm patient enough to let that happen.
Armando, me thinks you are a smart man. When I first laid eyes on the story this a.m., I initially shrieked in disbelief....trade Jason Taylor?????...We Fin fans are a bit too sentimental, and sometimes unwilling to go through the hard decisions that would help to bring a little more light and substance to this team that has suffered at the hands of previous poor coaching and personnel moves.
Your thoughts are sound and quite reasoned. I'm thinking that the idiot who posted in the comments section that you should never be working for the Fins organization, is just that...an idiot.
Maybe Wayne needs to hire you for your saavy ideas and your boldness to implement them.
Oh and seriously...what the heck do we have to lose by putting Ricky back in his #34 uniform and on the field if and when he gets reinstated?? If the team was moving on without him, whats the miracle that no player has taken his number? If he screws us again...so what? At least we know what to expect.
"Past behavior indicates future behavior" is Cam's quote. If thats the case, the behavior that interests me is the 1800 yards rushing from 2002...lets repeat THAT behavior!!!
We need a trade aight, we should trade Cam and Randy!!! These two guys are like the blind leading the blind!!!
If we where to trade Taylor we would end up with the short end of the stick simply because Cam and Randy don't draft the best players available they draft only family and friends !!! I too think it would've made more sense to draft Okoye and have him starting this year than to draft Ginn and have to wait 2-3 years to see what you got!!!!
As far as Zach goes the only way we'll get any value for him is if you put him and Jason Taylor in the same trade, but thats just CRAZY talk!!!!
Hey, donovan, my bad, you were right. The Pats did obtain a first-rounder for Branch.
Then again, Branch was 28 and a Super Bowl MVP. Somehow I doubt a team would exchange a first-round draft pick for Taylor. Worse, I'm dubious of how Mueller-Cameron subsequently would utilize the pick.
Armando, still no comment on your earlier 10-6 prediction for the Dolphins? A respectable journalist would not hide from that. The Dolphins suck. Apparently you were late getting the memo. While you question other people's courage, it's time for you to man up and admit that you made a bonehead prediction.
Anonymous
Check the previos blog Armando did comment on his 10-6 prediction!
I think depending on what you could get, you would have to look at it... If you could get a first and a third round pick I would say do it. The Fins need a good deal of help to get back to the top in NFL. I love Taylor but he is getting older as all players do, and has done nothing in the first two games. The Fins should have taken Patrick Wills he has been great, and we need a seriously fast tackling machine like him. If you are going to take Ginn, use him! Put him in and send him long, get L.Booker going as well, use him on 3rd down, a couple of runs etc.. The Fins need new blood.
Cam Cameron has a lot of problems...JT isn't one of them. Neither is Zach Thomas.
The current state aside, history would frown severely at the Dolphins for trading either of these guys, just at it would have had Shula dealt Marino to Oakland.
"My predictions for the Dolphins in 2007 is 10-6." - September 2nd, 2007
"The Dolphins, barring an unexpected rebound, are several years and multiple solid drafts away from being a contending team." - Armando Salguero, September 18th, 2007
.......
Armando, FYI - from 2000-2003 drafts, two players, I say again, TWO PLAYERS - remain on Dolphins roster *Chambers and Bell. Thats it, this tells you why they suck right now. Way to go Wannstedt/Speilman.
I STILL disagree, why would you trade your best player when you have a chance in a couple years to make some noise. I WANT and the dolphins NEED Taylor for as long as he wants to play. The Ginn pick is tricky...first of all, he is a WR and there are only rare exceptions where first year WR make an imediate impact...Ronnie has no line to run behind, and Trent is working with limited WR talent, sorry, but Chambers, Booker, Hagan and Martin are not exactly at the top of every teams wish list...we traded our TOP pass catcher from last year, he was under appreciated and was a great go to guy as he ALWAYS had found a way to get open...even with the dolphins! Booker appears to be a major mistake, you can't have your third rounder inactive, there were offensive and defensive line-men that we selected that could be starting not to mention corners available as well....JT is not the problem and trading him is not going to help WHAT SO EVER!
Teams trade their first round picks for players all the time. The Jets traded theirs for Doug Jolley.
Hey Terry, you're ripping Armando for his prediction and his sentence in his column today.
At least the guy is out there, standing behind what he writes. He predicted 10-6 and hasn't gone back on that prediction. But we've played two games and it's obvious to anyone things change. Prediction are just that, they're not facts.
Meanwhile, I went to your blogspot to see what you are about and it said the profile is hidden. So what are you hiding from loser?
Armando: I can't figure out if you're nuts or just trying to stir up controversy.
The whole thing is a vicious cycle that once set in motion is nearly impossible to get back on track.
What am I talking about?
The poor decisions that were made during the Wannstedt years are finally reaching fruition. When a team goes 4 years without bringing in any talent the natural attrition of this violent game will come back to haunt. Once that gleaning of talent has reached the bottom there is simply no easy way out except to take your medicine.
The management of the team has to accept and admit to the mistakes of the past and then come to the realization that in order to get good again we will have to be bad. I believe that trades and free agency are tools to be used by teams that have a legitimate shot a title but are only a player or two away. A team devoid of talent like this unfortunate bunch must build through the draft. Much like NE can bring in 4 receivers because they knew they were a target for Tom Brady away from a title last year. They can fill the void with FAs. We cannot do that. We have to build through the draft and we need impact drafts.
So as management how do you get there? Well you have some value currently on the roster these players do little to help when they are surrounded by marginal talent. You have to accept that you will not be good for a few years and the decision is a no brainer because in 3 years Jason Taylor is going to be 36 years old and his value will not be there when you can actually use it.
Sure I love Jason and Zack but I'm tired of losing and I'm tired of poor decisions. I know in my heart these guys are not going to get a title here and I could actually help them fore fill some of their dreams when they came into this league by giving them the opportunity that was given to Randy Moss this season.
Remember what Jimmy Johnson used to do? Stock pile draft picks and draft 4 linebackers and 3 DEs to find one Zack and one Jason. Jimmy busted on all his 1st round picks but he got value by shear numbers with his other picks and of course he had a great eye for talent in the later rounds.
The point I'm making is, picks picks and more picks... There should be no player on this team in the next two years that should not be traded for right picks. The trade of Wes Welker is exactly the type of move that needs to be done. Folks we suck, face it and stop bitching. Come to realization that we need to look 3 years down the road and that will require us to let some of our beloved heroes go. I'm sorry it's just the way it is.
Repeat with me Armando. We are supposed to get rid of the BAD players not the GOOD players.
While watching the later part of the game - in anger - I remember muttering to myself, "Well why don't we just go ahead and trade everyone for future draft picks if this is the sort of crap we're going to see all year." Then an immediate pang hit me.
I'm a fan of THIS team, with THIS personnel. I'm not naive enough to completely ignore the business side of football, BUT, if you trade away the heart and soul of this squad, why shouldn't we all just start cheering for any random team out there. "Viola, I guess I'm a Houston fan now." We're not just fans of whoever happens to be wearing an aqua/orange jersey.
If a player is no longer a good fit? If the numbers don't work? If the performance isn't there? Maybe.
Why should I pay $100 to sit in the stands and watch a bunch of strangers after the personality of the former team has been stripped away?
-Kid Neutron
lets trade the whole team and start over as an expansion franchise...
i'm with an earlier commenter, given the players this gm/coach drafts and trades for, trading jason taylor would be like dumping a billion dollars in the ocean -- a big waste.
HERE'S WHAT THE DOLPHINS NEED TO DO:
get a freaking, new coach and dump cam asap. cut your losses. fire cam and make capers interim coach till then end of season. then, put shula in charge of the coaching search -- he is obviously more qualified to find a coach then anyone else in the dolphins organization. get him back involved!
it sucks when you see a great player in his 30's just drop off the next year and just isnt the same. That is exactly what has happened to JT this year. he's not what he used to be anymore. im all for trading anyone to make the team better. on another note, i love teddy ginn, but still very upset about passing on pretty boy. if beck doesnt turn out good we could be 6 years goin on 10. just my 2 cents
Armando,
I would hate to see Jason go but I'd be open to listening to offers. This team is going nowhere. With all due respect to your preseason predictions (and you are much closer to the team and I'll ever be), I just don't see this team as even approaching .500 and they may as well dump their assets to build for 2009 or even 2010. They've had lousy drafts and made crummy free agent decisions. Maybe Mueller and Cameron can turn it around but it ain't in 07 or 08.
Whilst to lose JT would be gutting I feel we have the depth to cope in Roth and Wright, we need to get younger sometime on defense and while JT is worth at least a 1st and 3rd round pick in 08 draft, does he not deserve to win the big one on a superbowl bound team instead of getting the same ovations Dan did, as much as we all admire and respect #13 I'm sure we would all wish he had won that Superbowl ring to establish himself as the all time best QB ever to don a helmet. If we can get a low 1st and 3rd round pick by a team who finishes well so what, we got the extra picks to buid and we are heading for the no 1 pick in the 08 draft unless we play KC and we dont. Give Cam a few seasons and he will rebuild us, look beyond the dissapointment of losing to being a top 5 franchise again in a few seasons behind future HOF QB John Beck, by the way trade Ronnie now for extra picks and reinstate RW, nothing to lose.
Unless someone brings the kitchen sink, Taylor isn't going anywhere. It is an interesting discussion though. The more important question is what most people have touched on regarding the personnel decision(s) that would be made if we did make that trade.
I'm not giving up on this draft class, but it would have been nice to see some sort of glimmer of anything by now....Ginn is fast, so is the rest of the league. Beck seems like a gutty guy with a decent arm, so do most young QBs. I don't watch the Center much, but what little I saw of Mr. Satele didn't look good (did you see the pull when he ran by two Dallas defenders....were his eyes closed?). I've heard Booker is quick, haven't seen it though....My point is that a quick turnaround with the current players seems more likely than an additional late 1st rounder picked by Camueller actually paying off. Ultimately, both scenarios are far-fetched....I hope we can turn this thing around because my Sundays used to be a lot more fun.
What about trading Zach to the Bengals for Levi Jones?
fire cam and hire Coach cowher, atleast we would then finally have a proven winner in thie league.
The fins have a lot of rebuilding to do on both sides of the ball.
And our drafts suck. the fins would be better off not drafting anyone.
Jason had an incredible year last year; he should've gotten defensive MVP for the whole league. To say that Zach is any less of a value to the Dolphins is pushing it a bit far though. Jason's sacks have been a little up and down year-to-year; Zach's tackles are at the top of the league every year.
And who says small middle linebackers are a liability? Look at some of the greatest from history and you'll find that many weren't "prototype size". Mike Singletary : 6' & 230. That's one inch and two pounds bigger than Zach, and they get smaller. Our own Nick Buoniconti: 5'11", 220. Sam Mills: 5'9, 225. You tell me after watching him knock that ball away from David Witten, 30 yards downfield, ahead of the safety who was right there, and once again coming up with double-digit tackles that he isn't right up there with old Jason. It would be a disgrace to trade either, after all they've done for the Dolphins.
I agree with david, Trading Zach and jason is a no-go. Plus what are we going to trade for? more draft picks, so we can screw those up too.
Love the anonymous comments, JT I would trade but only for the right picks 1st and 3rd rounder, ZT i wouldnt trade cos I love this guy, 100% every play same as JT but we wouldnt get fair compensation cos of his age and I think he is worth more than JT. We need to give the young guys a chance, throw Beck in if we dont win soon let him learn, give L Booker a go anf put T Ginn on offense and let him go deep for christ sakes, also put RW back
I think changing the team more than what has already been changed after only two losses is not the answer. I would trade Dolphins fans for Redskins fans any day, that would help this team more.
While I would hate to lose them, I can see arguements for trading Ronnie, Chris, JT, and Zach. Not saying I want to see it, just saying that building up our draft picks, and turning the team over to younger players to grow for seasons to come would be an understandable option as well. Did you guys see the powderpuff questions the dolphin website passed through to Cam? I bet it was tough coming up with that many questions that didn't revolve around how horribly the team is playing right now. lol.
To be Quite honest i can point out there is no reason to panic because of the two losses we had...most of the points dallas put up again our defense was when our offense gave the better field position they could ask for..and as far as the redskin game i believe we could of won that on easily...especially if it werent for the fact that we couldnt run the bal alil more so our defense wouldnt be that tired in overtime...they pounded us and when it was our turn to pound them just to give our defense a break we couldnt...another thing about the dallas game..5 turnovers..theres just no way your going to win like that...so no turnovers no penalties..and run the ball more...which will open up the passing game and will make defensive lineman and linebackers respect the run and therefore there pass rush when we pass will be that half a second to a second long which will give green a lil more time. I think..we have potential...
Trade Jason and Zach as a package to the same team so they can both win that ring! Because I love Jason and Zach both I have to agree they should be traded for their own sakes. They don't need to be like Marino with wasted years and no ring. It wouldn't be the same without them, but they deserve better in their careers
Why trading Jason Taylor is a bad move:
Ex. 1) Trade of Ogunleye
Ex. 2) Trade of Wes Welker
Ex. 3) Trade of Pat Surtain
Long story short - We get the raw end.
Case closed
Don't trade Zach ... he's going to be a great coach/GM one day ... I'd hate to have another team give him that chance. Hell, make him 'fins GM NOW ... 'cuz I guarantee you he wouldn't have picked Ginn over Willis.
And he wouldn't have signed Porter to $20 mil guaranteed either (which will go down as the all-time WORST FA signing).
Trading Taylor and handing Cam/Mueller the picks is like asking a thief to hold ur wallet.
STUPID IDEA!
Armando If the powers to be at Dolphin central got a 100 picks for Jason what would we have? Cam has not showed me he can draft.
First of all- some you same people all predicted a playoff team just a few weeks ago. Now only two weeks into the season your tanking them and wanting to trade away one of the best defensive ends in the game. If we could draft better and make better off-seaon moves we wouldn't have this dicussion at all. Heck trade the whole team. To this point Zach is the only one who can tackle.
Called you names I wouldn't have the courage to call you in public? You become a bigger idiot each and every year. Remember trading Surtain, now we have Matt Roth. Decent but hardly the player Surtain was. Have some loyalty, and let these great Dolphins retire as Dolphins and enter the Ring of Honor and quit being a puffed up jerk.
Now that I've insulted you for the 427th time, let me say that this team is run like a Monty Python movie. Should we take Drew Brees? No the braintrust decides, thats what the competition expects us to do, we'll take the unknown Jamar Fletcher. Should we sign T.O. No, he might scare defenses and allow us the run the ball. Should we draft a QB in ANY year in the first round? No, we might find a replacement for Dan Marino! I'm telling you, you, me and anyone of a half a million people in SoFla who love the Dolphins could do better than the overthinking Clowns running this team for the last decade. I had season tickets in the front row (IN FRONT OF THECHEERLEADERS, MIND YOU) for 21 years. Gave em up, why? Because of picks like Ted Ginn JUNIOR! Let us not forget the man that owns this team bought us a World Series championship, then while everyone was feeling good and potentially interested in buying season ticket (i was a season ticket for the Marlins since their inception) he sold the players piece meal. I hate Huizenga. This is who runs the Dolphins now, the buck stops there. When he no longer owns the team then and only then will this team be restored to its former glory, and former respect as a premier franchise. As it is now, I'll give him the $150,000 or whatever Joe Robbie bought them for way back when i was a little kid.
JT and Zach deserve to finish their carreers off in Miami. Unless JT wants to go to San Diego (closer to Hollywood), he should stay put.
I think the fins would be better off trading Chambers than JT, the fins have better depth at that position and Hagan seems more willing to fight for a ball thrown up for grabs.
If the offense doesn't start jelling in the next couple of weeks I wouldn't mind seeing JT and Zach spending more time on the bench to allow other players to develop and be evaluated and to extend their carreers.
Well Armando you sure did stir up a hornets nest... One of the things to keep in mind is the positions of our early draft picks this year, WR, QB, Center & RB. There was a chart I saw a while back before the draft that showed the starts for draft picks based on the 1st, 2nd & 3rd seasons in the league. It is interesting to note that QB, WR and OL were at the top of the list of players who did not start in their 1st season.
So we really have to be careful how we rate this draft because Satele is starting and Ginn is getting into games on offense. I would not like to see Beck play at all this season because a QB can lose his confidence so easily by being through into the fire too early. That leaves Booker and RB one of the positions that makes the most impact early in their career. So I have to wonder about that pick.
We also have a starting fullback and a couple of other nice prospects. This draft may not turn out to be as bad as everyone seems to be alluding to. Mueller built playoff teams in Seattle and N.O. and has a pretty good track record.
At what point in time do we come to the realization that this team seriously lacks talent? We can't match up against the better teams in this league and somehow we have to get the talent back in the organization. If someone has a better idea than trading players for draft picks I'd like to hear it because I don't see any other way.
The true game breaking players in the draft are usually in the top 5 picks. We have to be bad, really bad to get one of those picks. Why be 6 & 10 year after year and have make decisions on player like Ginn who could be a game breaker but is not in the top 5. The league is set up for the bad teams to get better by drafting higher. We're just going to have to be bad that's all there is to it.
Without JT and Zack we would get real bad real quick if we aren't already there. Take the emotion out of it. We need to build a football team.
Oh good idea trade Jason Taylor for a first round pick so the Dolphins can take an extra mediocre player in the first round like Ted Ginn Jr., Jason Allen, or Ronnie Brown.
I dont know who we should trade but i think we should trade for Jon vilma. He is not being used right in the 3 4 scheme and has already shown what he can do if he playes in a 4 3. The jets had him run down on kickoff last week so obviously they dont hold him in high regards anymore.
Armando, it never ceases to amaze me how people will try any change as long as it is change. It happens in politics, business and sports. I will like to see better talent development and improved coaching from the team before trading the most bright star on our team. Similar to how Marino defined the team in his day, JT's work ethic and attitude should define today's Miami team. Without guys like JT providing some heart, this team is a bunch of transients - much like many of the people at the stadium.
Dear Armando,
Firstable you must recognize you are a public person asking for an opinion and must keep a profesional behavior. I think you insulted your public calling some of them "cowards" when you say "they wouldn't have the courage to call me in person" I supouse is not easy to swell it up but when you ask for opinion all kind arrive. And for your question I found very interesting, I will talk with Jason and discuss it openly because maybe he would like to stay in Miami and I believe he has earned the right to do what he wants.
You guys kill me with your chicken little routines. The sky is falling! No. We just lost our first two games. Did you all think that we were going to look like the Colts or something? New coach, new QB, new everything, that is, except on defense. Its going to take time to build a winner. You cry-babies need to just realize it and deal with it. I love my team win or lose. When I read stuff like "fire Cameron" and "trade Jason" and other dreck like that it makes me want to hurl. Its a free country, we can all voice our opinions, so this is mine. I still love the Dolphins and will continue to support them. Not drinking any kool-aid, just facing reality. This is the team we have. I'm proud of the many Dolfans who actually demonstrate their affiliation, here and elsewhere. Its more difficult to acknowlege that your team isn't dominant, and in this world of instant gratification we are all certainly hearing from the frustrated thumb-suckers among Dolphins fans. Why do you guys claim to be fans if you can't stand anybody we have?
Man up and stand by your team you bunch of old ladies.
AMEN, Bubba! I have been saying much the same for a while now. I think some of our fans need to grow a sense of humor, and need to figure out that sports are a leisure activity, not life, and death. If our team is in the crapper for a few years, so what? Does it make any difference in your life? Not really. You became a fan when you were a kid, more than likely. Your fandom now is more a link to those childhood memories than an integral part of your life, and livelihood. I love the Dolphins, and will till the day I die, but I am far past getting so worked up about how they do that it affects my life. Love 'em, root for 'em, voice your opinions, but don't get so rabid you panic at the slightest misfortune. The same people calling for Cam's head were calling for Saban's head, and Wanstadt's head, and JJ's head, and even Shula's head. I always hated the Jets more because of the nasty attitudes of their fans, but I gotta tell you, the Dolphans I have seen here aren't much better. It seems there is a prevailing attitude that we can bring in a new Coach, and he should be able to change half the roster (except, of course we have to trade away the scrubs for high draft picks, and keep the good players, because we all know that other teams in the league would much rather have the scrubs), change the system, and change the attitude of the team by the first preseason game, let alone the first regular season game. "If he's not two and o, he's got to go" Give me a break! No, strike that, Give Cameron a break.
There isn't any reason for anyone to get personal regardless how CRAZY your idea. Our talent isn't perfect but you begin solving the problem at the chokepoint. QB! Our receivers and QB are not synchronized and with the way Trent played other day, who knows when that day will come. Just as someone else pointed out earlier, AGAIN compliments of the coaching decisions, we gave away the 1 receiver who always found a way of getting open. I'm sure the Patriots are grateful and have reaped from that decision!
Set aside Taylor and if you want to trade, trade Booker or Chambers and frankly, I could careless what we get in return. Truthfully, I've lost more confidence in the decision makers in comparison to the players in the game.
By the way, I still say you should feel ashamed of the Marino comments you made in your article.
!!!~~~ REBUILDING~~~~!!!
I have been a diehard fan for decades, like the rest of us here are. I was going to go into a long stretched out post but patrick already made the points. I want to see them in a superbowl. unfortunaly, it will not happen for at least 2-3 years. ZT and JT both deserve a chance at one, certainly deserving more then moss! This and we need to be in the top 3-5 picks and build up multiple picks from trades to move forward... ok rambling on things that have been said.. simply put it is unfair to run out 2 hall of famers carreer w/out a chance to win the big one & completely idiotic to just look at a wild card chance and sub par picks that will not amount to our expectations. LOSE BADLY lol ; ;
- VERY BADLY - get a top 1-5 pick
- trade JT ZT to a team w/ a chance for draft picks.
- It better to plan ahead rather then settle for disappointments and mediocrity. this sucks btw but hopefully it will get better
~~~ go fins!
The trouble with the fins is the lack of ball control in the first half of the game. Three and outs are tiring out the defense at the end of the game. Let's not forget that with one minute left and three time outs the coach decided to go into overtime in the Washington game. Any trade now would be futile and a plus to ANY team but ours defensively. Trade the coach for Norv Turner, or if he needs game strategy have him give me a call.
This team is garbage and things need to be done. Anything worth any value should be traded away. This includes JT, Zack, Chambers, Brown, and perhaps the ever improving Crowder. We need draft picks and lots of them. In the last few years both Green Bay and Tennessee have gutted their teams for picks and have rebuilt themselves into respectability.
I have the utmost respect and admiration for both JT and Zack. That is why I would rather see them have a chance at a SuperBowl than wasting the last few years of their careers in a frustating losing situation. I can handle losing if the team has a plan but this every year signing over the hill free agents and giving away draft picks has got to stop.
The only thing I fear is that we will continue to use our current picks and any we pick up on more mediocre talent. This overhyped draft class is definitely looking more and more subpar. I know its early but Ginn is being outshined by the third round Jacoby Jones. Brady Quinn is active, Beck is not. Satele is struggling Kalil in Carolina is doing much better(same round taken), Booker is inactive it goes on and on. I believe in judging people on there actions and performance and the current regime is struggling mightly. Muellers draft is not looking good, and Cam is failing miserably. Cam does not look to have any control over this team, has shown poor playcalling, terrible clock management, and just plain bad judgement. He actually told Huzienga this team could make the playoffs.
We need an experienced coach like Cowher, an excellent talent evaluator like Parcells (who wants to be a GM) and completely start over. This post is like a novel but I love the fins so much and just wish they could get a plan and some sense of direction. Cam must be proud the fins are definitely failing fast forward. Screw the benefit of the doubt, and give him time, can anyone actually tell me a good decision he has made?(and this definitely goes back to the horrendously called second half that allowed the Patriots to win the playoff game against the Chargers). Fire Cameron before the end of the season please because things will definitely get worse. Mark my words.
I agree!!! Get rid of Mueller and Cam, keep JT, Let Beck QB, cause Green STINKS. Let Shula back in as a Consultant, etc. Let Capers finish the season. Get someone who knows how to draft what we NEED!! (i.e. OL, DB). Ginn would have lasted to our 2nd round pick, when we could have had Okoye. My grand mother could draft better than the Dolphins have drafted the past 3 of the 4 years.
Ronnie Brown is getting bashed, when he shouldn't be. Our OL STINKS, and you can't run the ball if the OL can't RUN BLOCK, or PASS block for that matter.
Edswood
We can't get rid of what talent we have, because management doesn't know how to draft. We get rid of all our talent for draft picks will make us the laughing stock of the NFL, because our management can't draft what we need. So that statement wouldn't work IMO.
Armando...actually I would call you an unknowledgeable/idiotic so-called football expert to your face...you should write more in-depth columns in Nuevo Herald regarding FUTBOL...maybe you'll be able to get something right then...
I'm pretty sure considering the number of years Zach has been playing at a high level, he probably should not be considered an "overachiever" anymore. The guy is just flat out good.
Well, lets see...
New coach.
New system.
New QB's.
New line.
Did anyone think we were NOT going to be 0-2? We are going to be entering the THIRD GAME for these new things coming together. Its going to take at least a full season and a half to see playoff progress for this team.
It's only Ginn's second game, give him at least a half a season to see what he's got. Give the line half a season to get it together so we can START to see something. If they don't get it together, it doesn't matter who's running the ball and what QB is throwing it. Just look at what happened to Edge in Arizona. Even in a decline, he was good in Indy, but hit a wall when he has no line in Zona.
One offseason with so many things going on isn't going to send you playoff bound instantly. I think we all need to relax and just realize its not going to be perfection just yet.
We have to face the fact that we are in the middle of rebuilding and we should feel a bonus if we get it together sooner rather than later. Doesn't mean I don't care to watch games because we aren't the best, but I don't see why I shouldn't. People in SanFran, GreenBay, and other places stick by their teams even through the rough stuff. We are such fairweather fans in Miami.
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I'm a DIE HARD Dolphin FAN, but you Cam and Randy supporters kill me !!! How many games will it take for you guys to see these two guys are not right for this team. How long would you like us to wait to see some sign of life from our draft class?? Ginn hasn't shown any signs of improving on punt returns, Cam isn't using him to stretch the defense, Booker has been in-active the first two games. And some poster a few post up suggested we wait until the middle of the season before we judge. I'm only judging Cam and Randy by what they SAID, not some wet dream I had!!!!
Furthermore if you look around the league there are plenty of rookies we couldv'e had our hands on that are preforming well and contributing!!! SO PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK WITH THE "MOST ROOKIES DON'T ASCEND UNTIL YEAR 2 OR 3"
Has anybody seen Calvin Johnson??? And to think the Lions said they wanted to trade out of the 2nd spot but no team wanted to trade!!!! I think we could've gotten that pick for our 1st and a 3rd!!! Even if we didn't trade up for Johnson, Okoye is looking real good right now for the Teaxans!!! Why use your first round pick on a player that won't contribute until yr 2 or 3 when you can have someone to contribute NOW??? I guess because he doesn't know Okoye's family he wasn't even on our board!!!!!!
This is what I'm saying, when Nick was here last ,he lied to the players the fans everyone,and we belived him!!! Cam is lying to the owner the fans and the players and you guys want me to get behind him and support that BULL!!!!! If he would've told Wayne he needs a few years to get this team in playoff form he would've never been hired, but because he lied and I qoute "there is no need to completly rebuild. This team just needs the offense to be tweaked" Well he tweaked the offense when he brought down his INT prone baby Trent Green , and by the way he salvaged a portion of our future for this guy!! He doesn't look like the leader I heard all his supports proclaim him to be!!! Cam and Randy signed all thier draft picks to make everyone feel they had a good draft!! But as we all can see the only decent person from this years draft class is Samson Satele!!!!
ZACH IS the BEST LINEBACKER in the NFL...ask any of the NFL Coaches..there are plenty of teams who would give their right arm to have him play for them...how does one overachieve consistently for 12 years??? He is an awesome athlete & deserves great respect for his tremendous dedication to the Dolphins
You must have hit your head harder than Thomas. Your willing to trade Taylor for a #1. What to pick another Ted Ginn who will be in the arena league in a few years. The only way you trade a premier defensive end is to fix Miami's glaring need since the 70's oh and those 2 years that Ricky was around the RUNNING GAME!!! The problem is your not going to fix that with one player. Unless San Diego is as nutty as you and will trade LT for Taylor than I say pull the trigger.
Just shoot me now. You may be absolutely right, but with the Dolphins' notoriously terrible track record for first round draft picks during the past decade, a trade of Taylor could result in no net benefit to the Dolphins. Apparently and unfortunately, the Dolphins' new drafting gurus did not exactly show great insight for first round talent in their first draft together earlier this year. For that reason alone, a trade of Taylor for a first round pick may be a very risky venture for the Dolphins.
Worse, we would have to endure even more boring team play if Taylor should be traded this year. I can barely stand to watch them this season when Taylor is going full speed, making plays.
Trade Jason Taylor? Please shoot me now.
Andy's older and wiser brother.
Interesting concept. I agree that it has to be a team bidding for the Super Bowl to be interested. Otherwise they are going to look at him the same as the Dolphins. So, do you really get the quality pick(s) you expect? My guess is no. Then, you look at what the dynamic duo would do with the picks. Eeks! Keep Taylor. He's got plenty of time left as an impact player .He's a leader and can keep continuity on D. He will also be a great mentor.
I know this subject is worn out, but bring Ricky back if he is reinstated. I realize he could be a major distraction but he could also tear it up if he chooses.
Dude your insane...don't forget that Taylor was ready to walk last season and retire. What makes you think that he would stay with another team if traded. Remember Taylor has always said that he would like to finish his career as a Dolphin. The only scenario I see this working is if Taylor is traded to a Superbowl contender for one last run at a ring. I am not so sure how many more players we would trade to New England and if it would be worth their late round 1 st round pick.
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