Some observations coming out of the combine
The frustration of this year's draft is that there is no Carson Palmer or Peyton Manning or Orlando Pace or Bo Jackson who screams, "I am better than everyone else in this draft so pick me."
In that regard the Dolphins are reliving the misfortune of 2005 when Nick Saban, armed with the second overall pick, complained to his staff that there was really no one worth using the pick on. The Dolphins eventually picked Ronnie Brown.
Now don't get me wrong, there is talent in this draft. But there is not one clear-cut, can't miss guy out there. Jake Long is a monster, having benched 225 pounds a combine-high 37 times in recent days. But most scouts agree he's not as suited for instant success in the NFL as what Joe Thomas was last year. And Thomas did not go No. 1.
Chris Long? Great pedigree, great production and he was coached by Bill Parcells disciple Al Groh at Virginia -- which is perhaps the biggest reason I believe Long will be Miami's choice if they keep the first pick. Parcells trusts Groh's opinion and Groh loves Long, so Parcells will love Long.
The problem is if the Dolphins are going to run a 3-4 defense, that means Long will have to play standing up a lot. And he's never done that. Yes, he might turn into Willie McGinest, who Parcells turned into a stand-up player after he played mostly down at USC years ago, but just because one guy made the transition doesn't mean the other will.
Personally, I think Ohio State's Vernon Gholston has greater potential than Long. He's quicker, faster and is still learning so his potential to become better is greater than Long's. Long has been immersed in football all his life and isn't likely to improve exponentially. Gholston started playing as a sophomore in high school and is still very raw. I love this guy, but I doubt the Dolphins would pick him No. 1. Too unorthodox.
You know of Miami's need at quarterback. After nearly a decade of trying to find the next great Dolphins quarterback, the Dolphins are still searching for the next great Dolphins quarterback. They will select a quarterback in this draft, no question about it. They cannot be convinced John Beck is the future and it is simply good stewardship to have multiple quarterbacks in the pipeline.
But Matt Ryan with the first overall pick? That is hard to fathom. Although Mel Kiper insists that's the pick, the truth is Ryan simply will not be the highest-rated player on Miami's board at No. 1. Yes the guy has great intangibles, but neither from a physical nor production standpoint can he be ahead of Darren McFadden, the two Longs and --here's a surprise -- even USC defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis. All of them are more likely to succeed in the NFL than Ryan, who threw a bunch of interceptions and has unimpressive mobility.
Glenn Dorsey of LSU? He has undisputed first overall pick written all over him if not for a ton of buts. He's great BUT he's probably better suited for the 4-3. He's great BUT he didn't work at all at the combine. He's great BUT he's been injured a lot. He's great and plays hurt BUT that left tibia fracture he had in 2006 still is not completely healed and that is a concern.
So what does that make Dorsey? A prospect haunted by a bunch of questions. Just like most of the other guys.
In that regard the Dolphins are reliving the misfortune of 2005 when Nick Saban, armed with the second overall pick, complained to his staff that there was really no one worth using the pick on. The Dolphins eventually picked Ronnie Brown.
Now don't get me wrong, there is talent in this draft. But there is not one clear-cut, can't miss guy out there. Jake Long is a monster, having benched 225 pounds a combine-high 37 times in recent days. But most scouts agree he's not as suited for instant success in the NFL as what Joe Thomas was last year. And Thomas did not go No. 1.
Chris Long? Great pedigree, great production and he was coached by Bill Parcells disciple Al Groh at Virginia -- which is perhaps the biggest reason I believe Long will be Miami's choice if they keep the first pick. Parcells trusts Groh's opinion and Groh loves Long, so Parcells will love Long.
The problem is if the Dolphins are going to run a 3-4 defense, that means Long will have to play standing up a lot. And he's never done that. Yes, he might turn into Willie McGinest, who Parcells turned into a stand-up player after he played mostly down at USC years ago, but just because one guy made the transition doesn't mean the other will.
Personally, I think Ohio State's Vernon Gholston has greater potential than Long. He's quicker, faster and is still learning so his potential to become better is greater than Long's. Long has been immersed in football all his life and isn't likely to improve exponentially. Gholston started playing as a sophomore in high school and is still very raw. I love this guy, but I doubt the Dolphins would pick him No. 1. Too unorthodox.
You know of Miami's need at quarterback. After nearly a decade of trying to find the next great Dolphins quarterback, the Dolphins are still searching for the next great Dolphins quarterback. They will select a quarterback in this draft, no question about it. They cannot be convinced John Beck is the future and it is simply good stewardship to have multiple quarterbacks in the pipeline.
But Matt Ryan with the first overall pick? That is hard to fathom. Although Mel Kiper insists that's the pick, the truth is Ryan simply will not be the highest-rated player on Miami's board at No. 1. Yes the guy has great intangibles, but neither from a physical nor production standpoint can he be ahead of Darren McFadden, the two Longs and --here's a surprise -- even USC defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis. All of them are more likely to succeed in the NFL than Ryan, who threw a bunch of interceptions and has unimpressive mobility.
Glenn Dorsey of LSU? He has undisputed first overall pick written all over him if not for a ton of buts. He's great BUT he's probably better suited for the 4-3. He's great BUT he didn't work at all at the combine. He's great BUT he's been injured a lot. He's great and plays hurt BUT that left tibia fracture he had in 2006 still is not completely healed and that is a concern.
So what does that make Dorsey? A prospect haunted by a bunch of questions. Just like most of the other guys.
posted by Armando Salguero at 11:40 AM
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this is why MIA should be screaming about their Ryan love and hoping ATL trades up. otherwise one of the Longs.
What about Joe Flacco with one of our 2nd round picks?
Play up mcfadden, get dallas' picks and barber, then draft flacco in the second, and kenny phillips in the late 1st :) need more from the U on this team.
Mando,
I would really like to know the feeling you TRULY get about where IRELAND stands with Beck.
Oh and please take over Darlington's Q&A. That guy sucks.
Chris Long has the instincts, motor, desire, football smarts and all the other intangibles.....let's just take him and be happy we got a great player who hopefully we find a way to use on the same side as JT.
I agree, this draft class has no pure breed stud. That being said, all teams are in the same boat, so, if we can't trade our 1st pick, we still need to take either the best guy available or the guy which suits our needs best. Offensive line and defensive line are where we need to focus the #1 pick. Kiper - Matt Ryan? Give me a break. He MAY be the best QB available, but that still doesn't make him the best player available. I'm just hoping whoever we pick is not only able to start day one, but start being very productive day one. NYJEFF
Chris Long played end in the 3-4 in college... he can do it in the pros too.
Matt Ryan is this year's Alex Smith. Overrated and overhyped due to a weak quarterback class. Put Matt Ryan in either 2004 or 2006's quarterback class, and just see how good he really is.
If the Dolphins stay at number one overall, DE Chris Long will be the guy. Chris is definately a Bill Parcells type of player. Besides, when you give a guy about $35 million guranteed, you want a playmaker and a safe bet. Chris Long is both. $35 million guranteed isn't going to change who Chris Long is. Chris grew up with money. Money is nice, but it doesn't dictate how he performs.
Pressure? Yeah, there's a ton of pressure being the number one overall pick. However, try dealing with the pressure of being constantly reminded of the large, looming, shadow that your Hall of Fame father casts over you for most of your life. Chris, had to fight to escape his father's shadow. Chris went out to prove that he was a damn good football player, not a football player that got to where he is because of his name. Chris carved out a solid football career at the University of Virginia. So good, his #91 jersey was retired by the school during his SENIOR YEAR!!!
Chris Long has the heart, desire, and the passion to be the very best. Besides, does Chris Long look like the kind of guy who will be late to training camp, just so he can get more money? I don't think so. No, it's not a great year to have the number one overall pick. However, since we're pretty much stuck there. Let's take a pretty damn good football player with that pick.
UHH IM PRETTY SURE VIRGINIA RUNS A 3-4 SO I DUNNO WHAT THE HELL HES TALKIN ABOUT.
Wow everyone has their own pipe dream don't the. Why don't we just let ATL trade with the Giants. Trade our #1 pick to ATL for their two #1's. Then turn around and trade it to Oakland for their #1 and Michael Huff. If we can then trade out of the oakland pick for more then wonderful. If not then pick up Goulstan out of OSU. Taking him at the 4 wouldn't be a huge stretch. The man is a beast and lined up against some of the best O-lines in the country coming out of the Big-Ten. Take a late first rounder on Phillips out of Miami and then is he slips that far on a physically dominant receiver in Mario Manningham. It is a strech for him to fall in the late first round but we have seen stranger things. We can worry about a QB late in the draft there are too many this year to peg one guy as your own. None really separate themselves from the field. Take a flyer on beck for another year. We should be in a top 10 pick again next year.
The Big Ten couldn't carry most SEC teams jock straps. Ohio State was OVERRATED, and Michigan was the best they had but they started off VERY poorly.
By the way I want to thank Chris Long's PR Firm/Agent fro stopping by and posting.
If we stay at #1, its between 3 players, Chris Long, Jake Long, and Vernon Gholston. Chris and Vernon would be OLBs in the 3-4, and Long of course would be an OT. Just because Chris Long played DE in UVA's 3-4 doesnt mean he will in the pros. We already have an undersized DE (see Matt Roth). Long will play standing up like Armando said. Plus, you dont give a 3-4 DE, who is a gap defender, 60 million.
We either take Sedrick Ellis or we kick ourselves until he retires.
Oh, and Ron in Charlotte is WAY overrated. If Brian Robiskie doesn't drop a TD pass and then Pretorius gets a FG blocked, no one's talking about how supposedly awful the Big Ten is. The top 100 recruits each year all look at the same 10 schools anyway.
Fins can't go wrong with either Long.
I am overrated? The attention is flattering. Thank you, Anony-Moos; whoever you are.
True though about the recruits. I just hate the Big Ten. Totally biased. Get a championship and more than two good teams before anyone has to talk about them again.
Hmmmmmmmm lets see... More then two good teams.. now let me do the math. Michigan = X Ohio St. = Y Wisconsin = Z. where Z=1, X=1, Y=1
X+Y+Z=(1 team)+(1 team)+(1 team)=3 teams
Yep you were right, Ron in Charlotte sux. Can't even do simple arithmatic.
WELL IN COLLEGE LONG WAS ABLE TO PLAY THE DEFENSIVE END POSITION IN THE 3-4. IN THE PROS, HE'S NOT BIG ENOUGH TO DO THAT AND HAS TO PLAY THE OTHER SIDE, THE SIDE THAT STANDS UP AT TIMES. THAT IS WHAT ARMANDO IS TALKING ABOUT, I BELIEVE.
im sick of everyone talking about "VALUE" for the first pick, just pick a damn good, solid defensive player like Gholston or Chris Long and we will be fine! We need all the help we can get on D, we cant stop the run, cant get off the field on 3rd down, cant stop the chains from moving and cant cover and we have no depth at any defensive position, does it really matter who, Im sure parcells and will Ireland will take the most gifted athletic "d" guy that reminds them of demarcus ware. I really like Trevor Laws (DT, Notre Dame) he was a beast at the combine and should be still there late 2nd, early 3rd, so no need to go for Ellis or Dorsey. Taking Matt Ryan with the first pick is laughable, i dont get the love affair with him. 2nd rd. we should look for DB help with the likes of Antoine Cason or Aqib Talib. Mckelvin and Cromartie will be gone by mid-1st rd definately. maybe jenkins from south fla. slips but i doubt it. especially after the show cromartie and mckelvin put on at senior bowl and the chargers last year for antonio. Parcells usually like to take older veteran free agent o-lineman so i doubt jake long will get much thought, i see alot of tony boselli in him. Everyone talks about McFadden, but did anyone see Mendenhall (illinois) WOW! He ran an equivalent speed if you factor in his bigger size than Mcfadden. We need a TE and not just some filler guy, we need a Winslow type athlete TE, im sure this is on parcells' to do list (bavaro, coates, whitten). i just hope we continue to spend in free agency and dont get gun shy after giving Joey $20 million up front, Vilma for our 3rd rd pick anyone? just a thought. both late first rd picks, Jason Whitten and Marion Barber from Cowboys for our first pick, this way we get bruiser for ronnie, athletic TE, and basically 3 straight picks at the end of 1st rd going into first pick of second rd! just a thought......
Long might be a bit undersized for a 3-4 de but I'd still like to see him and Taylor at de and olb or flip flopping and driving Brady nuts!!! We'll need someone to take JT's place or Porter's place soon anyway.
except the fact that theres no way dallas will give up jason witten... Sounds good though
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Sorry, Chase. IS Wisconsin that good? You still need a championship game.
I can't do arithmetic? Well you obviously cannot spell arithmetic.
I can't add, huh? How did I become a successful CPA?
Sorry Sir! I didn't acknowledge your superiority. I acted completely out of line. BTW I didn't know you had to win a national championship to be considered good. Well damn you forgot Minnesota(Who BTW has more N. Championships then Miami and Texas), Penn st., and Mich st. then. That adds up to 5 if you leave Wisconsin out. Basically what you're saying is that you need to have good history to be considered a good team. I Dont exactly agree with that. How about you?
Like John Clayton wrote in ESPN.com yesterday: try to trade with the Falcons and get an Ellis or J Long within top 5.
If not, take either Long and use the first second rounder (which is really a last pick of the first round) on the QB.
BTW, Thomas kicked ass in Cleveland this year.
Heh heh Chase.
I agree. I think the point is I wouldn't look at someone's potential on the OL based on lining up in the Big Ten. Not a lot of "big games". I would say someone lining up in the SEC and being successful shows more. NO big time Championship game in the Big Ten. At least not now. OSU gets in to the National Championship two years in a row in a flawed system by default!
You know, this has all the familiarity of the Texans taking Mario Williams instead of the next coming of Christ in Reggie Bush. Recall that Bush was WIDELY acknowledged as the best "can't miss" player EVER who would redefine the running back position.
Well piss on that.
Everyone then crucified the Texans for passing on Bush for Williams, and in that instance, the Texans went to Williams and said something to the effect "Hey Buster, you're good, but you ain't number one on anybody's list. Now, we would like to make you OUR number one, but we need a contract done NOW, and why we'll pay you well, we aren't paying you a gazillion dollar bonus."
Williams basically agreed with that, Bush went next (for more money as I recall over the length of the deal), but time is bearing out the wisdom of the Texans decision.
If there is no clear-cut consensus, and the Fins' don't want to pay so much to a questionable rookie, what would prevent them from working the same type of deal FOR LESS MONEY, on a player rated below the Longs, Dorsey, or Ryan.
In essence, get a 5/6/7 player to agree to get more money than they would if the Fins did not select them #1, but in return, they would agree not to demand record rookie money.
The Fins then get a serviceable player, and have cap room left over for the future and for Free Agency. Yes, the future, cause it ain't happenin' this year.
Ellis is too small to play nose. Check this guy out at NT. Maybe we can get him on day 2. Frank Okam DT Texas 6-5 320. Scouting report actually describes him as a "beast", pushed his guy into the QB often. Coaches in practice were upset because "he was putting the QB at risk". I love it.....that's exactly what we need as an anchor on defense. Here's the link:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=33733
chris long shud be our pick obviously and he is an excellent pick. idk what hes talkin about. chris long played 3-4 and scouts say he has the ability to play outside linebacker as well so its everything we need. i wish proffessional writers did enuff research...
Hey Ron...I typically agree with your posts, but obviously you're letting your bias show bashing the Big Ten. The SEC has the buzz of late...no doubt...but when you're talking history it's hard to ignore the Big Ten. Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State (the legendary Joe Pa anyone?) are three of the biggest college football programs in the country. The SEC has is rich in history too, but you can't rightfully say they are better than the Big Ten unless you're only using the last 6 years or so. Infact...I'd argue that the teams in the SEC that are at the top now...are what I'd consider "new money" teams. If you catch the analogy. "Old money" being Alabama and Georgia. I'd consider Auburn, Florida, LSU, and Tenn "new money".
As for the Phins...A.S. is on track here, but I still think we'd be crazy...CRAZY to pass on Jake Long. I think he is the safest pick if we stay at 1. Which I highly doubt. Most "experts" project Jake Long, to quote Mayock, "a Pro Bowl RT for years or solid LT". He's as sure fire as this draft has to offer.
~JinVA
Hey Phins Fan in NE...I like the kid Red Bryant from Texas A&M too for a true NT. We DEFINITELY need to draft one with such a thin crop in free agency.
Did anyone else notice Gholston was STELLAR at the combine?
Hey Jin,
I am biased, though I do hate Georgia and Alabama with all of my heart and soul (along with the Jets, Yanks, and FSU).
I am talking about now because the guy in question, Jake Long, was in the Big Ten recently and I am referring to that.
I just think the Big Ten teams of late get overranked with soft schedules soft intra-conference competition and mostly hairy women as fans. OK, kidding there but you get my point.
I'm cool with either one of the longs, except i think that the first overall pick is too high for an OL player firstly, because we are going to have to unload 30-35 million guaranteed to him, but mainly because there is so much talent in the later rounds at that position. Look at the Pats, all their pro-bowl lineman are from the 3rd or later rounds. But all there good DL are from the first round. So im siding with Chris long as of now. I like the thought of gholston, but i think thats a risk that we dont need right now. I know i wont be happy with glenn dorsey. To be honest, im not all that concerned with our #1 pick, im A LOT more concerned with our later picks. Those picks could possibly play the biggest roles for our future.
I'm beginning to think Mel Kiper is more of a joke each successive year. Matt Ryan is terrible. He completed fewer than 60% of his passes, for fewer than 7 yards per attempt and threw 29 interceptions over the last two years. We have to go with Vernon Gholsten's potential at #1 if we don't get a good trade.
The Dolphins will attempt to move from 1 to 3 by putting pressure on Atlanta to make the move for Matt Ryan. I believe they may even draft him similiar to the actions taken by the SD staff to aquire Philip Rivers. Look for St. Lois to move in on a Long...prob Jake Long who looks more like a Right Tackle then Left. Then the Cowboys or any other willing team will be in a better position to move into the third spot and grab McFadden. First, We need alot of help. Second, I could see Ryan as a Dolphin. He has that aggressive semi angry determination.
JinVa yeah that Bryant guy is actually rated higher than Okam. There aren't many true NT's out there so we're gonna have to snag someone.
225 Lbs...37 times. Enough said. Draft Jake Long
Hey Ron in Charlotte: I am so sick of SEC fans badmouthing the Big Ten. The Big Ten was 2 -1 in bowl games in 2006 - 2007 vs. the SEC, and Michigan beat your Gators last year. The SEC is a very good conference - probably the best OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, but why are SEC fans so envious of the Big Ten that they constantly feel they have to bash them? Low self esteem? Still fighting the war you lost? We don't bash the SEC. We come down and teach you how to win championships. Urban Meyer and Les Miles are former Big Ten coaches. I agree that Ohio State was overated this year, but it was a rebuilding year. This was the worst Buckeye team Jim Tressel has had. But Buckeye fans don't decide who is #1. If the other teams in the top 10 would have taken care of business instead of losing in the last few weeks, the the Buckeyes wouldn't have gone to the championship. Perhaps your real beef is with your greedy college presidents and AD's that want to make more money on a conference championship therefore causing your teamd to beat up on each other. Or maybe your beef is with the NCAA for not having a playoff. But lay off the Big Ten. You should love us for continuing to send coaches your way and for Jim Tressel not being able to figure ou the spread offense.
Just for the record, I am not an SEC fan.
Bowl games won is skewed statistic, esp since one of the wins was the Championship. There are lots of crappy bowls.
My whole point is that you can't say Jake Long is going to be great because he comes from the big ten. Long played a lot of mediocre defensive lines. So maybe OSU was a better one, but stating that Long will be great because of hiw work inas grueling confereence for tha last four years is a JOKE.
That's all I am saying.
The SEC should be fielding at least SEVEN ranked teams next year.
LSU, UGA, AU, UA, UT, SC, and UF.
Yes the Big Ten has history, but not lately. Michigan has been bot up to snuff. OSU has been overrated, Wisonsin is unpredictable, Iowa isn't steppin up, and Penn State needs to move on from Joe. Thats my point.
GO CANES!
Hey Ron...I think you're stretching a little there with Satan at Alabama next year! ;-)
Michigan turns out more quality O-lineman consistently than any other college program in the country. You have LB U...QB U...RB U...and then you have Michigan who is O-lineman U! To say Jake Long is overrated because you don't think Michigan played a great schedule this year is a little flawed. The guy played 4 years there...and OSU was TOUGH all four years with this year being their worst of the four. Point being...Long gave up two sacks in those 4...and one was to Gholston. I think the SEC is the deeper conference no doubt...but I guarantee Michigan, Ohio State, and Wisco could hold their own quite well if they were in the SEC, and although Joe Pa needs to move on...they have still turned out some decent talent out of PSU in the last few years. Including one of the top three backs in the NFL right now in Larry Johnson.
Saying it's a "Joke" is showing your bias again...OSU, Wisco, and for that matter PSU and Iowa have had some talent in that 4 year period. Saying it's a "JOKE" is over the top.
JinVA
Who the heck keeps writing to trade our pick to Dallas for their two number ones and Barber. Why do we want Barber. Forget about Barber. Dallas is not going to give him and two number ones
"Including one of the top three backs in the NFL right now in Larry Johnson."
Jim, i'm sorry to break it to you but LJ is and never was a top 3 back. He benefitted from the best O'line in football and when they started to retire he looked like crap. Not saying he's awful, but not a top 3 back.
If you ask me... And no one did. There are a few of you who should put your ego in check before you come here.
As for the #1 pick? It comes with a hefty price tag, so IF Miami is able to trade it, I don't look for them to get "dallas' picks and barber", although it would be nice. But we might get one, and Barber.
I also agree with picking up Flacco in the second round. I like what I saw, and have read about him, and think he might be a better choice then Ryan.
If you can't keep the other team from scoring, what good is a stacked offence? That's why I think if we do keep the first pick we need to invest it someone like Chris Long. Long has more experiance in the 3-4 then Dorsey and Ellis, so he's more of a sure thing for the money.
My fellow Finsfans I said this a week ago and I will continue to say until it becomes reality..and im sure Mando will agree..as crazy as some of u may think it is Gholston is the pick..he will create more havoc in the coming years than any other player on our draft board..he will be a better player standing up than Chris Long..and I also think that as the number one pick Jake Long is not as good as Thomas from last year...make Gholston the pick!!!
tuck at 1 or they trade down they should take gholston think umemyora 7 merriman but more freaky,the take ot anthony collins& cb rogers cromartie in the second round
Get FA Flozell Adams LT and Faneca Guard FA
Ok Play up Matt Ryan, make Atlanta give up #3pick, and CB Hall and a third. Trade ## To dallas for McFadden, Get Dallas two 1sts and Barber.(they don't need him and Jones and McFadden) Take Ryan Clady or Chris Williams, Joe Flacco,W Dallas 2 firsts, Draft Marcus Harrison DT, Dan Conner LB In 2nd and third rds and WR and S depth in third, BPA after that. We should be stocked after getting Hall, Faneca, Adams, Flacco, Barber and either Clady or Williams as LT to groom.Dan Conner will be a starter at LB with Crowder and Porter. Marcus Harrison will fit in with Holiday. Pick up another QB, CB, Safety and OL and DT in late rds.
Yes, I am BT and that is how you play the draft..
gholston is the second coming of lawerence taylor, everone know parcells been looking for a kid like this, jake long cosidered the #1OT gave up 2 sacks in his college career 1 was to gholston, he's a freak of nature take gholston #1 or swap picks with atl for d-hall and then take him #3 anyway it goes miami should and will take gholston with their pick
Here a video of jake long against vernon gholston, not saying it means anything, but jake gets owned
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yot9ClPvZDg
vernon mutha f'n gholston! whatt they know about that?!
I'M so sick of people saying trade to dallas for there 2 1st and barber! get the damn hint we don't need barber we don't need a rb! are u clueless or what we have ronnie and ricky! if we want another RB we might as well pick mcphadden! are u that brainless! we don't need barber or mcphadden or the cowboys 2 crappy 1st rd picks! the best trade is with atlanta and get there 3rd and 2nd rd pick! then we can draft 3rd 32,34th and 54th due to sandiego! a 32 and 34th is just as good if not better then a 22nd and 28th! u get just as good talent and u pay less money! because of being in the second rd! don't u get it pk 20though 60 is hit or miss the players are just as good u just have to pick the right talent u moron and u don't got to pay the 1st rd money like the 2nd rd it's a big difference! just my 2 cents u morons
Here is the question. Do you go with the security of knowing C. Long's pedigree or do you look at the potential upside to a still raw man-animal in Gholston?
I have no clue who is the better pick but here are the combine numbers and where Gholston and C.Long ranked.
Gholston
Benched 37 times (1st)
4.67 40 yard dash (4th)
35.5 inch vertical (1st)
10' 5 " broadjump (1st)
7.12 Cone Drill (8th)
4.40 20 Yard Shuttle (8th)
C. Long
Benched (did not bench)
4.75 40 yard dash (8th)
34.0 inch vertical (3rd)
10' 4" broadjump (2nd)
7.02 Cone Drill (4th)
4.21 20 Yard Shuttle (1st)
we should trade our first pick to the colts for dwight freeney, bob sanders, reggie wayne, peyton manning and a player to be named later, then trade peyton to new england for tom brady, trade brady to ravens for ray lewis and omar from the wire, trade dwight freeney and our second rd pick from the chargers to cowboys for zach thomas and trade our 3rd pick and bob sanders to atlanta for mcfadden and cash considerations, take the cash and make it rain on pacman jones to get him to sign so we have a corner and then sign michael vick in 2009 and convert him to corner to team up with pacman and then trade both for brady quinn and marion barber....
..............OR...................
JUST PICK VERNON GHOLSTON!
wow can't tell that ron in charlotte doesn't catch many big ten games. You can't get better in the trenches games anywhere. Where do the high o-linemen always come from. Start with the big ten. This isn't a pretty and flashy division of sitting on the pocket and 4-5 WR sets. No it isn't a score 50 points a game and just outscore your opponent. It is line up in the I and pound it down their throats. Win it in the trenches. You can't deny the o-line and d-lines of the big ten. No big time games and a weak schedule what are you talking about. Does the SEC really get that many more teams in bowl games. What do you consider a big game. There aren't many bigger or more storied games then OSU - UM. How about everything that Penn State does. Iowa had a couple down years but they are normally near the top. Minnesota pumped out two pro bowl caliber RB's in the last three years. Wisconsin is always up there. Illinois had a great cinderella story. I forgot to mention MSU as well. Where is your rationalization. You might be a CPA but you don't look at the numbers effectively. Look around the NFL at the big ten presence.
I see three possible trades, the first with Atlanta...they need Ryan.
The second with K.C. they need J. Long and the third with the Cowboys...Jerry is drooling over McFadden...play it smart and trade down and pick up draft picks in the 20-60 range..where the true value is in this draft. We could wind up with 7 top picks in the first day.
When r you guys going to get a clue? If Chris long, whom I like a lot, has to play standing up, he is an OLB in 3/4 correct?
Then what do we do with our two OLBs JT and JP? huh? You see you cant have 3 OLBs
SO... after stating what ought to have been obvious and all you geniuses missed , and that includes mando; we are forced to face the facts. If you draft C Long you either have to pay 35 Mill for an undersized 3/4 DE OR you have to either trade JT OR play a rotation of 3 OLBs.
But none of that makes sense (Xcept maybe trading JT if we can gert a high pick) BECAUSE you cannot pay 35 MILL to a part time player and you really cannot afford to sit your best players at the OLB position for a rook WHO HAS NEVER PLAYED THE POSITION. Man the TEs in the league will all love to play us and have career days against the rook
The Dolphins will attempt to move from 1 to 3 by putting pressure on Atlanta to make the move for Matt Ryan. I believe they may even draft him similiar to the actions taken by the SD staff to aquire Philip Rivers. Look for St. Lois to move in on a Long...prob Jake Long who looks more like a Right Tackle then Left. Then the Cowboys or any other willing team will be in a better position to move into the third spot and grab McFadden. First, We need alot of help. Second, I could see Ryan as a Dolphin. He has that aggressive semi angry determination.
5:41 PM
Anonymous at 5.41 Why does J Long look more a RT than a LT? He played LT at Michigan and gave up 2 sacks in 40 games! R u just quoting some talking head?
I like Ghoulston as well bujht saying he owne jake long is asinine He had one sack! So can i say that on the orther 30 plus pas plays in that game Jake owned Ghoulston?
You do not draft an OLB #1 over all
UMMMMMMM Hes bigger, stronger, and faster then Chris Long isnt he? So How can you look at him as an OLB anymore then you can look at Chris Long as an OLB????? So in Gholston's case you can draft him with the #1 overall pick... IF i could go back id spend the #1 pick on Merriman or Damarcus Ware who are both considered OLB.. The moral of the story is, theres a BIG difference between a 4-3 OLB and a 3-4 OLB
Does anyone else think we may have a chance at Limas Sweed. I like him more then any other WRs. Tall Fast, Jumps high, hands catcher and great body control. Whats not to like
will you idiots just shut up?
I hope Miami trades down. If they can get Atlanta to offer up DeAngelo Hall and a lower round pick as well as the #3 pick for the #1, we can grab one of the Longs and not have to pay top pick money.
I think we may have to end up just picking at #1. Too bad for the Phins there was not a clear cut leader. With that said I would take Sedrick Eliss DT. He is strong and quick and will be disruptive. He does not have the injury ? that Dorsey has. For some reason I am not enamored with Howie's son. I am sure he will do ok but, doesn't seem to have the upside you would like to draft at #1. Goulstan is a physical presence but, is still pretty raw. If it were any other pick but #1 it would make more sense to me. In Eliss I think you have a guy that will cause havoc in the back field. He plays strong and was unblockable at some of his post college events.
In the second round we could even tab T Laws DT from ND. He is getting very serious in his workouts and sculpting his frame. he will be bigger in the pros and will grow into a fine workhorse DT. This will account for a very active, fiesty run stuffing and pass rushing D line. The talent should take some double teams away from JT. Pressure has always been key and QB's cant stand pressure up the middle. Take that Tom Brady!!
I think Parcells and crew are gonna give the QB a groomer pick. The kid I like is the project guy with the killer 4.44 speed and superior accuracy from San Diego. He would surely bring the physical attributes that one would look for in a QB. Then Parcells can work his magic in acquiring someone more veteran like an Anderson from Clev, D McNabb (Kolb is not getting any younger) These QB's are hypothetical based on having back-ups (Quinn, Kolb) in the wings that the teams should be bringing along soon.
The kid I think that will be another Steve Smith type is DeSean Jackson WR Cal. I think he has the movement skills to be a much better Ginn. Speaking of which, do you think the Parcells regime will get Ginn to play tougher and stick his head in there alot more? I would settle for just some GO routes that Cam never used with Ginn for some reason? Maybe he was saving his speed for other games.
I liked the little bit we saw of L. Booker. That would be a serious scary trio from a burn you standpoint. RB L. Booker, WR DeSean Jackson and WR Ginn. Speed kills and you can't touch peeps downfield. Another great producer that will excel is WR Malcom Kelley. He has the body type and skills to be an all around great player for a long time.
Come on draft...get here!
I disagree with almost everything you said, sorry dont take it persoal
First of all, I am a white guy.
Long is white Gholston,Ellis and Dorsey are African American. Long will therefore be smarter than Gholston,Ellis and Dorsey, but Dorsey,Gholston And Ellis will be more aggressive and have better careers. This team needs some big black mean and aggressive defensive linemen. Anyone else notice how 8 out of 11 offensive starters for NE were white and were totally dominated by the 11 black starters for Giants? Africian Americans football players are bigger, stronger,meaner and faster.
Im tired of hearing about Dorseys injuries being a concern. I am a lifelong LSU fan, and I have watched every game this cat has ever played either on the tube or in person. He has played like 40 straight games, never missing a single start, half of which these games are against ranked opponents.
Not to mention playing and dominating in the physical SEC.
Plus you will find no greater character off the field. Dorsey is a hard working role model who positive aggressive energy is contagious to other players around him. This injury issue is way overblown. Dorsey is the real deal.
Let me preface this by saying that I am not recommending the Fins take Matt Ryan with the #1 pick but I can't read about how overrated and overhyped he is. One Anonymous actually called him terrible. That is moronic. He points out how he threw 29 Ints. in 2 years and didn't complete over 60% of his passes and has no mobility. This kid can play football. I remember back in 1983 a young QB beingcalled overrated with bad knees and no mobility. he ended up being a pretty good QB for Miami. Dan Marino. Now I am not comparing Ryan to Marino but this kid will be somebody's QB for years to come and I hope it isn't in the AFC EAST. For the record anonymous. Marino complete just 58.4% of passes his senior year. he had 17 TD's to 23 ints and ran a 4.89 40. He threw 54 TD's and 46 ints. over his last two years. Ryan completed 59.3% of his passes for 31 TD's and 19 ints. his senior year and threw for 46 TD's and 29 ints. in his last two years. This kid loves to play and wants the ball in his hand at crunch time. He will be a stud for someone....
I'm sorry guys but, how do you pass on a talent like McFadden? You can't- we need to draft him period. This way Jones knows we are serious and then gives us the 2 first picks and barber. That deal would be good for us. If Jones doesn't make that deal- even better because now we finally have a big name offensive guy that is a threat to take it to the house everytime he touches the ball, oh and he can throw the ball, too people. Then we get our big ass QB in Flacco who began his carrer at Pitt like that other QB we used to have!
nice research Paul....did not know Marino had so many pics in his last two years at Pitt.
I'm in the don't draft Ryan with the #1 pick camp...too many negatives.
Stability on the line is a Parcells trademark that's why he will pick Long....Jake that is.
Did anyone forget the new head coach is a former O-line coach.
Great Left Tackles are hard to come by....Jake will secure our QB's backside for the next 10+ years....Draft Jake Long and you'll be happy for a long time....its not sexy, but is a sure thing.
NHFINSFAN.... I agree with you regarding Ryan not the #1 pick just can't believe he is being called terrible, etc. As for the Long's, I would go with Jake as well. 37 REPS at 225!! Monster size. We haven't had a LT since Webb left. Would certainly help any QB from worrying about getting killed every time you drop back. Can't go wrong with either Long though. No one is going to trade for that pick. The price makes it an albatross. They need to cap the price or teams that need that pick with be bankrupt if they miss. From the granite state myself. Nice to have some fans up here...
Armando,
Chris Long played standing up ALOT in college.
Al Groh used him in his 3-4/4-3 hybrid scheme.
if you watched his bowl game, you would have noticed that he was standing up most of the game and rushing off the edge. He dropped into coverage..etc...
Do just a little research. Just a little.
Gholston got most of his sacks in one game. He regularly got pushed around. he isn;t int he same stratosphere as Chris Long. You just like him because he has pretty muscles.
Miami better pick McFadden. We have had so many bad drafts. I love how everyone is trying to down play this ark RB. He is every bit as great as Peterson along with a pro-calaber quarterback arm to boot. If we don't draft him I believe Parcels will regret it heavily as he watches McFadden spoil defense after defense and become the next greatest NFL ticket selling attraction. Dallas can keep their 2 picks and Barber. That trade would be bad for us. Then we draft Joe Flacco in the second. Think about this. Now we have Ginn Jr flying down the side line, Flacco throwing 80 yard darts oh and McFadden - is he going to run for 60 yards or drop back and throw for 60 yards. The offense becomes very offensive with just these two freaks of nature picks. Then we use all that money to build a defense and we always have next years draft and our remaining picks this year to build a line. McFadden adds more speed and Flacco adds depth - a high powered fast offense for years to come
Lots of interesting ideas and posts. It will be real interesting to see what trades evolve. From my perspective on #1:
-some people seem to be on the "undersized label" bandwagon for CLong. Puleaze, very selective comparisons. We have an undersized DE named Jason and he turned out alright. CLong is about 1.5inches shorter, but about 25 pounds heavier.
-some people seem to be on Vernon Gholston bandwagon. I think this happens every year just after the Combine. Check the tapes. Did anyone see Virginia's Bowl game. Long was in the backfield all day creating havoc. 17 sacks last year. He has more than his daddy's genes going for him. That said, VG IS very intriguing and will probably make someone happy soon, but at #1? I say no.BTW, Long (or Gholston) will add YEARS to Jason's career...a very good thing for us.
-I am a big Matt Ryan fan, but I just don't see him going #1. He absolutely carried BC and tried to do too much, but in my opinion he is mobile enough, tough for sure, a field general, and will reduce interceptions with topshelf receivers in the Pros. Some people continue to talk about his interceptions, but you should check out Dan Marino's college stats to put things in perspective. Take a look at interceptions per attempt..very enlightening. Before the fanboys scream, I am NOT comparing Ryan to Marino, just throwing out food for thought. Also, check out Ryan vs. Beck...before we close out the Beck experiment. Get Flacco, Henne, or Booty in the 2nd round. Must have new QBs for sure.
-#1. You gotta go for one of the Longs. I am now leaning toward Jake. The safest pick, safest investment, and a huge need to start the rebuilding. 10 years of improvement to Pro Bowl. Those who say he is "not mobile"??? Everytime I saw him play (3) he was agile-never got beat on the pass ,nasty and BURIED at least one guy per game..just what we need for the run game-then watch Ronnie go nuts if he comes back healthy. Save Beck from the train wrecks. Build with a foundation LT.
I absolutely LOVE the argument about the SEC vs. the Big Ten. College football stirs incredible passion. Since I'm not affiliated with either conference, I will respectfully offer the measure I use to objectively evaluate the two conferences: I like to look at how the two conferences have done against my alma mater, USC, in the past ... let's say seven years, since our current program has been in place. In that time, USC is 4-0 versus Big 10 teams (2-0 vs. Michigan, 1-0 vs. Illinois and 1-0 vs. Iowa). In the same period, USC is 4-0 vs. SEC teams (2-0 vs. Auburn; 2-0 vs. Arkansas). So in my view, the SEC and Big 10 are equally good!
or equally as bad.
What do you think of swapping first round picks with Arizona and getting Larry Fitzgerald in return. We get a great reciever tandem have a chance at an o-lineman and they get there running back to replace the edge in Mcfadden and lose 17mil of salary.
1. WE WON'T TAKE ELLIS OR DORSEY BECAUSE TREVOR LAWS AND KENTWAN BALMER WILL BE AVAILABLE LATER AT DT
2. WE WONT TAKE JAKE LONG BECAUSE IRELAND AND PARCELLS DONT DRAFT O-LINE TILL AFTER 1ST ROUND AND USUALLY STICK TO VETERAN FREE AGENT ONES LIKE A FANECA ETC.
3. MATT RYAN #1 IS LAUGHABLE.
4. DONT FORGET THERE ARE SOME NICE DE FREE AGENTS OUT THERE THAT COULD SWAY OUR PICK IF WE GET ONE.
5. IF WE TRADE DOWN, IT HAS TO BE WITH A TEAM THAT CAN GIVE US A SAFETY OR CORNER, HALL,TRUFANT,LITO SHEPPARD,T. NEWMAN OR GO AFTER TY LAW(FREE AGENT), ID TAKE A 36 YR OLD TY LAW THAN WHAT WE GOT NOW.
6. OT IS DEEP IN THIS DRAFT SO NO J. LONG
7.C. LONG IS FROM LONG ISLAND JUST LIKE PARCELLS, HHMM.....
8. GHOLSTEN IS LIKE DEJA VU COMPARED TO DEMARCUS WARE AND PARCELLS LOVES,LOVES,LOVES WARE.
Now that Zach is gone and JT is almost gone, Dolphins need a new leader on defense. The guy needs to be someone who has no off field issues, loves football, and studies film because he likes it not just because he has to or because he is trying to get a big contract. More and more is feels like Chris Long is the guy.
or gholston is a workout warrior and will turn out like The Boz and chris long will go on to be a dwight freeney....so armando please quit and give us somebody who isnt wowed by workouts...when they make a game where you run 40 yards and then do a high jump...call gholston. if you want a player with a great motor, never gives up and CAN PLAY FOOTBALL call chris long
You have to protect your QB and open lanes for the running game to sustain drives and score points in this league. Put Tom Brady behind our O-line last year and we still end up with 3 wins or less. So drafting Matt Ryan makes no sense.
That being said Jake Long should be our move. This man is a rare physical speciman and talent. Compare his #'s to Joe Thomas from last year. Jake benched 37 reps at 225 lbs. and ran a 5.17 in the 40. Joe Thomas benched 28 reps and ran a 4.92, not much difference in the 40 but a huge difference in strength. Also you have to look at what adding talent to your O-line does for your record. The Browns went from 4-12 to 10-6 by drafting Joe Thomas and signing Eric Steinbach in free agency. You think it's a coincidence that Jammal Lewis rushes for over 1300 yards and Derek Anderson makes the Pro Bowl.
Even if we pick up Flozell Adams in free agency I still say draft Jake Long. Flozell is already 32 so he probably only has a couple more productive seasons in him. Place Jake at the RT spot for a few years until Flozell is either cut or he retires. Then slide Vernon Carey to RG or LG and we have ourselves a seriously talented O-line for years to come.
Then draft the best available NT with our first 2nd round pick and follow that move by drafting the best available CB with our 2nd, 2nd round pick. This draft is deep in talented NT and CB's. Hopefully Trevor Laws will be there at pick 32.
Does anyone remember when Don Shula drafted Jackie Shipp in the 1st round because of his potential and the fact that he was a physical marvel? We all know how that turned out. How about the Eagels drafting Mike Mamula? Now I am not saying that Vernon Gholston will be another Jackie Shippor Mike Mamula, but I think it is a really bad idea to draft on potential and or physical attributes alone. Chris Long is a player simple as that!
Does anyone remember when Don Shula drafted Jackie Shipp in the 1st round because of his potential and the fact that he was a physical marvel? We all know how that turned out. How about the Eagels drafting Mike Mamula? Now I am not saying that Vernon Gholston will be another Jackie Shippor Mike Mamula, but I think it is a really bad idea to draft on potential and or physical attributes alone. Chris Long is a player simple as that!
Chase....
That is what makes this time of the year cool. We get to see whom has more scout in their blood, me or you.
For the record I said DT Eliss, DT Laws, and WR DeSean Jackson will be players in the league that end up playing well and have good careers. You disagree. No hard feelings at all. Time will tell if you are a superior judge of talent.
By the way, whom are you sticking your head out for picks wise?
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