Where does Brett Favre rank relative to Marino?
As you might have heard Brett Favre is retiring.
So why is that news on a Dolphins blog? Well, because Favre belongs on the Mount Rushmore of NFL quarterbacks and he's got to share that space with guys like Johnny Unitas and Joe Montana, Dan Marino, and eventually Peyton Manning when he's done playing.
The question that remains is Favre leaving the game ahead of Marino in the minds of NFL fans? I know asking that question here is like asking the hen house to vote for either the rooster or the fox. But I am, just this once, going to trust you guys can bring objective insight into the matter.
Before we do that let me throw some records with the next closest mark behind it:
Career TD passes -- Favre 442. Marino 420.
Career passing yards -- Favre 61,655. Marino 61,361.
Career passing attempts -- Favre 8,758. Marino 8,358
Career completions -- Favre 5,377. Marino 4,967.
Most 3,000 yard seasons -- Favre 16. Marino 13.
Most win by a QB -- Favre 160. John Elway 148.
Consecutive starts by any player: Jim Marshall 270. Favre 253.
OK, your thoughts?
So why is that news on a Dolphins blog? Well, because Favre belongs on the Mount Rushmore of NFL quarterbacks and he's got to share that space with guys like Johnny Unitas and Joe Montana, Dan Marino, and eventually Peyton Manning when he's done playing.
The question that remains is Favre leaving the game ahead of Marino in the minds of NFL fans? I know asking that question here is like asking the hen house to vote for either the rooster or the fox. But I am, just this once, going to trust you guys can bring objective insight into the matter.
Before we do that let me throw some records with the next closest mark behind it:
Career TD passes -- Favre 442. Marino 420.
Career passing yards -- Favre 61,655. Marino 61,361.
Career passing attempts -- Favre 8,758. Marino 8,358
Career completions -- Favre 5,377. Marino 4,967.
Most 3,000 yard seasons -- Favre 16. Marino 13.
Most win by a QB -- Favre 160. John Elway 148.
Consecutive starts by any player: Jim Marshall 270. Favre 253.
OK, your thoughts?
posted by Armando Salguero at 11:50 AM
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If Marino was hopped up on pain pills too his stats might have been closer.
I might get beat up for this post…
But if you remove the teal coloured glasses Brett Favre is a greater QB than Dan Marino. He was tough and never injured; he threw half his passes in bad weather conditions and had almost no seasons under .500. He played with more heart than any player in the nineties and he even won the Big Game.
If you add in the Super Bowls Favre's been to, it's hard to argue that Favre wasn't the more successful quarterback. But who was the better QB? If you compared both players in their primes, I'd say Marino. If you had a time machine, and could pick the best of the best at each position, I'd still go with Dan for my starting QB. He never had the talent around him (particularly on defense) that Favre and Elway did, so I don't blame him for the Dolphins' lack of success, particularly during his later years.
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Well, anonymous, it is hard to beat you up if you don't even state your name! BF has the stats and the ring and MVPs - hard to knock that (pain killers or not). I also think Dan could have played a season or two more had he wanted to. In any case, Dan Marino is my favorite QB to play the game. That's what matters to me. NYJeff
Marino tried to control the personnel in MIami throughout his career. He never had a run game or a defense.
I would say Favre will be viewed better by no Dol-Fans, but talent wise Marino was better.
And NOBODY in NFL history had a better release than Marino did. He is the best pure passer ever. But that is semantics. Manning does not have Marino's arm or release, but Marino doesn't have Peyton's self-control or his intelligence.
But it doesn't matter because Marino is my hero and he always will be. So let everyone rank whoever they want. I respect and understand it, but Marino is the best ever, to me.
p.s. For those who don't know, I think a guy named Johnny Unitas knows something about playing in cold weather. NYJeff
I love Marino, but I have to admit that Favre was the greatest in my mind overall. The best pure passer is Marino, but the bad weather issue is huge to me, none of the other great QBs had to deal with those types of elements on a regular basis. Ron makes good points, and Marino is my hero as well, but overall I think Favre did some amazing things and he won more big games compared to Marino... Go Fins'08!
Remember a good chunk of Favre's stats come under the new rule changes. I don't like the question 'who is better' about anything, there are always too many variables, and often no single one is the best. That being said, I believe nobody ever through the ball better than Marino. He had the touch pass, the clothesline pass, the deep ball, the quick release, and above all amazing accuracy.
Remember a good chunk of Favre's stats come under the new rule changes. I don't like the question 'who is better' about anything, there are always too many variables, and often no single one is the best. That being said, I believe nobody ever through the ball better than Marino. He had the touch pass, the clothesline pass, the deep ball, the quick release, and above all amazing accuracy.
Do you proof what you write?
"The question the remains is Favre leaving the game ahead of Marino in the minds of NFL fans?"
Armando, you left off the interception stats. Farve happens to be number one there too with 288. Blanda is number two with 277. Marino has 252.
Farve was great and a tough player. His consecutive streak is quite impressive. But, if you play long enough and throw enough passes, you are going to have those stats. I have a great respect for Farve, but Marino was much better on the field. Hey, if we had the Reggie White and the Packer D is the mid 90s, we would have at least one ring during that time.
Marty.
What about pics? Farve holds the record, doesn't he?
Armando,
Did you catch Profootballtalk.com's most recent post that says Ted Thompson is putting the bug in Parcell's ear about Farve?
Any word about that?
As for the debate, I'm a die hard fin fan, but hands down, Farve had less to work with in receivers, worse weather conditions and from what I can remember most of his offensive systems were run 1st. Therefore, he's only slight better than St. Marino.
What gets me fellas is that Marino IS why he had no rings. He came onto a team with a solid D and I believe a solid running game and took it to the air but excelled early.
He toopk control of the city and won the NATIONS hearts. He built the following the Dolphins have across the nation and around the world.
UNfortunately, whether intentionally or not he took control of the offense and the team from Shula, and Shula couldn't do anything about it. Shula wanted to draft RB's and DL. MArino wanted more receivers and more OL linemen. His passing game was more important than the team, and that is his fatal flaw.
What could Shula do? If he pissed off Marino, he was out the door. Marino saved Shula's and Miami's legacy that December Monday night vs. Chicago in 1985. 1983 was Shula's last great draft. If he ever that many to begn with. Yeah he did draft RB's but never the top backs. MArino had behind-the scenes say on drafting and signing FA's. He chose prolific stats over CHampionships, whether he knew was doing it or not!
But still, he is the best passer ever.
How many games did Favre play?
How many games did Marino play?
Take all those stats and divide by the number of games, and there is your answer.
Marino (superbowl victory not withstanding) wins HANDS DOWN.
Matt in NC
Ron in Charlotte-
Not sure about your "1983 was Shula's last great draft". 1990 and 1993 were no slouches either (Webb, Simms, Cox, Vincent, Hollier, and others).
Matt in NC
Ron in Charlotte, you are obviously a real corncobber. Pure fantasy that gibbersh you wrote. Good luck finding one person from that team who would agree with you. Remember to use a wrapper.
You forgot to add that brett farve owns the record for most interceptions ever by a QB
THERES NO WAY YOU CAN RANK FARVE OVER MARINO SURE FARVE HAS ALWAYS BEEN GREAT BUT NO WHERE NEAR MARINO MARINO NEVER HAD LEGS OR A RUN GAME SHYT HE NEVER EVEN HAD A DEFENSE OR RECIVERS BUT PUTTING ALL THAT ASIDE FARVE PLAYED ALOT LONGER AND WAS MUCH LESS INJURY PRONE BUT HIS NUMBERS ARENT THAT MUCH BETTER THAN MARINOS SO BASICALLY WHAT IAM SAYING IS WHEN YOU TAKE THE ACTUAL PLAYING TIME INTO CONSIDERATION FARVE'S NUMBERS WERE NOT THAT IMPRESSIVE BUT MARINOS WHERE VERY IMPRESSIVE, THE TRUTH IS IF MARINO WERE TO HAVE BEEN ON THE GREEN BAY TEAM THEY WOULD HAVE WON MORE THAN 1 SUPERBOWL AND MARINO DINT PLAY BEYOND HIS TIME, FARVE PLAYED GREAT LAST YEAR BUT WHEN IT COUNTED HE BOMBED RIGHT OUTTA THE PLAYOFFS, IN MY HEAD THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ARM LIKE MARINOS AND THERE NEVER WILL, AGAIN I STATE THE FACT THAT HE DID IT ALLLLLLL WITH HIS ARM THERE WAS NO RUNNING, BLOCKING, DEFENSE, SPECIAL TEAMS, HELL I REMMBER MARINO EVEN DOING THE COACHING ON THE FIELD SO TO ME AS A QUARTERBACK MARINO WAS WAY BETTER NOW WHEN U SAY WHO WAS THE MORE SUCESSFUL THEN I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD EVEN ASK
For all of you talking about how Favre is better because he played in bad weather I don't believe it. Many good QB's play in bad weather, they just get USED to it. I think it would be harder for a QB playing in a dome to go to a stadium a couple times a year and play in bad weather. Does Peyton stink whenever he plays in bad weather? I don't think so, don't overrate how weather effects QB play. Just because it's cold and snowy doesn't make it harder to play in than if it's windy and rainy.
Ron, I normally think that you're just a run of the mill moron, but today you've improved your status and are now a top-tier moron. Congrats.
Despite what you want to believe, Marino did not run the team. Who are these great receivers that you clim Marino demanded the team have instead of RBs and DL. You better check the team's draft history and signings before you throw out something like that. It just isn't true.
As for Favre vs. Marino, I feel like Marino is better. But that doesn't knock Favre. It's like saying that $200 million is better than $199 million. They're both incredible.
Why aren't interceptions on that list....because I think Favre tops that list too.
Guys, I didn't put interceptions in there. Know what? I didn't put Super Bowl victories or appearances in there either.
One benefits Marino, if you think being up there in the in interceptons is good. On the other hand, the other one obviously looks better for Favre.
Moron:
You don't have to agree with Ron In Charlotte if you don't want to, but he at least always signs his name says what he thinks and judging by what he is written over recent memory seems to know quite a bit about football and his Dolphins. Why don't you bring actual facts if refuting someone instead of vague generalities and telling someone else to check their facts? Someone stating their opinion doesn't require sources and facts. People can say whatever the hell they want to.
I think, for the purpose of statistical comparison, we should also note the stricter pass interference and defensive holding rules that have been in effect for much of Favre's career. Imagine what Marino could have done if you couldn't touch a receiver after five yards and there were pass interference (or the threat of) flags being thrown anytime a defender breathed on a receiver during his entire career. His 1984 numbers would never have been touched.
I cant and never will say Brett was better than Danny Boy..the era in which the game was played and the pace at which it was played there was no a guy playing in his time than our friend Dan..
You forgot 1 more record. Farve has the record for most interceptions of all time!
Levity, what, are you Ron's mommy?
Three quick Stats for you thats sums it up better then looking at totals, because Brett played in 15 games (almost a full season) more then Dan.
Passer Rating
Marino 86.4
Favre 85.7
Completion per INT
Marino 19.71
Favre 18.67
TD's per INT
Marino 1.67
Favre 1.53
This is so close, but Marino holds a slight edge in all three categories. Still I don;t know how objective these stats are b/c I'm sure there are similar categories Brett would be leading in. Lets call it a draw.
No. I just defended somebody I know nothing about that has always been a solid contributor. I don't always agree with him but he normally makes articulate points that add value to the discussion.
I disagree with Ron on this one about Marino in most ways, except there may be a minor amount of truth to what he is saying, but it wasn't a major factor.
Brett who?
It's probably not fair to compare two QBs when one had a running game and a defense the majority of his career, and the other didn't. Just like it's probably not fair to compare a QB in a West Coast offense or a Run-and-Shoot to someone who was in a standard pro formation offense throughout his career. Numbers can be skewed by systems, being on bad teams, or a number of other factors.
Bottom line, I'd pay to see either of these two guys play on Sunday. I was perhaps more amazed at Marino's play because defenses knew he would be passing, and knew exactly where he would be on every single play and they usually failed to stop him. Favre had rollouts and a running game, thereby having the benefit of play-action, which Dan never had. Still, it was fun to watch Brett play. I cannot say one was a "better" QB than the other.
-Mike in Orlando
When I was putting this together I was really happy to find a point that Marino is the Man and better then Favre - but unfortunately I also looked up Mannings stats and if he will keep on playing he really has a shot - I hope you can figure out everything - I can not import excel but I did my best to proove the DAN IS STILL THE MAN!!
Manning Marino Favre Brady Montana Unitas Elway
TD passes per game
1,91 1,74 1,72 1,76 1,42 1,37 1,28
Passing yards per game
260,16 253,56 239,90 235,45 211,20 190,71 219,98
Passing attempts per game
33,78 34,54 34,08 32,52 28,08 24,58 30,98
Completions per game
21,68 20,52 20,92 20,48 17,76 13,41 17,62
Interceptions per game
0,96 1,04 1,12 0,77 0,72 1,20 0,97
Sacks per game
1,19 1,12 1,71 1,81 1,63 1,09 2,21
Fumbles per game
0,32 0,24 0,57 0,58 0,04 0,00 0,32
Fumbles lost per game
0,11 0,08 0,25 0,26 0,03 0,00 0,15
Most 3,000 yard seasons Percentage 100,00 76,47 94,12 75,00 50,00 16,67 75,00
OK maybe its better if I do it like this - Cheers from Germany
Manning - Marino - Favre - Brady - Montana - Unitas - Elway
TD passes per game
1,91 - 1,74 - 1,72 - 1,76 - 1,42 - 1,37 - 1,28
Passing yards per game
260,16 - 253,56 - 239,90 - 235,45 - 211,20 - 190,71 - 219,98
Passing attempts per game
33,78 - 34,54 - 34,08 - 32,52 - 28,08 - 24,58 - 30,98
Completions per game
21,68 - 20,52 - 20,92 - 20,48 - 17,76 - 13,41 - 17,62
Interceptions per game
0,96 - 1,04 - 1,12 - 0,77 - 0,72 - 1,20 - 0,97
Sacks per game
1,19 - 1,12 - 1,71 - 1,81 - 1,63 - 1,09 - 2,21
Most 3,000 yard seasons Percentage 100,00 - 76,47 - 94,12 - 75,00 - 50,00 - 16,67 - 75,00
I used to get into the whole ranking thing and once even managed to convince a Montana fan that Marino was better...but in the end, how can we honestly rate the greatest QBs when so many variables are at work and when professional scouts seem to get 1 out of 4 1st round QBs evaluated correctly.
For my money, I'm taking Dan over anyone else and I'm not going to bother trying to explain why. He's just the best. He can come back right now, get in the shotgun and hit an open WR in less than 3 seconds on a consistent basis....don't ask him to make a handoff outside of the guards though.
I will always be a Marino fan and Dophin fan. He was exciting and beating the Jets with that fake in the 4rth quarter was fantastic. Watching him, Clayton and Duper play was a lot of fun.
But Favre beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl. I made a lot of money off that win. Stat smats Favre beat the Pats and that puts him ahead in my books.
The stats are too close to call.
cdnphinfan
Can we stop with the who won more big games or more regular games? Or at least minimize it. Football is the ultimate team game. Favre probably would have been in the same boat as Dan Marino if not for guys like Reggie White and even Desmond Howard.
Well, They only way you would ever know who was better, would be to line them up Green Bay VS Miami at a neutral site, and change Qb's at halftime.How else can you determine a players ability when they have teammates that control the destiny? Who would play better on both sides? The QB who could get the most out of his team.
With that statement, I say Dan was the best because he never had the defense and RB that Green Bay had. They both had WR's, and Dan threw more yds and Td's per INT than Brett.
But the truth remains. When Dan retired, Brett was the one I watched. There was no one else that would attempt to put that ball where it could not be thrown. Dan and Brett were always the masters of that feat. They both wore their heart on their sleeves..and both could ride off in the sunset after most games as the baddest man on the planet. They both had followers because they could lead like no others, and knew that 19 seconds from 80 yds away was possible and going to happen in less than 18 seconds. They both had huge stages to act on, Green Bay being the 1st super bowl team, and Miami being the best ever undefeated, and all ages rooted for these young men.
Let them both be remembered as the best, because thats the way they would treat it..unless you put them on the same field of a Super Bowl Game....We saw Favre and Elway, but no Marino and Favre..such a pity..we will never know the answer.
I think Manning will crush all of the records and have the ring as well. Montana is the best ever in my eyes but Marino is the greatest passer. I see Favre as a gunslinger like Marino though and a blast to watch. I think he is a top ten QB.
Marino is better because he never laid down for Michael Strahan. People talk about how "competetive" Favre is, but if he was truly "competetive", he would never have lied to his teammates and laid down so his buddy Strahan could get the sack record. How can you respect someone who did that?
My only comment is that marino played the last 6 or 7 years of his career with one leg, last few with a hip issue, and the last one with shoulder problems. The man was tough and he played fewer games than Favre did and had zero successful running backs and Jimmy Johnson screwed him in the end. Marino was the better QB and made receivers better, not the other way around.
I think it should be pointed out that Marino basically missed 1 1/2-2 seasons if you add up all the time he was out due to injury. Favre never missed a game due to injury. Not to mention Favre played an extra season longer then Marino. So if you look at it like that, it took Favre 2-3 extra years to accomplish what Marino did in Basically 15-16 seasons. So to me, what Marino accomplished, with no running game or Reggie White on his defense, is more impressive then what Favre did. And if you want to take a look at what Marino did/is doing off the field as far as given back to the community and being a model citizen, Favre isn't even in the same stratasphere. Marino never partied on South Beach like Favre did in Atlanta. They called him 'Buckhead Brett' because that's where you go to party in ATL, and Favre was always there. He was so trashed, he missed the team picture! They were talking about it on ESPN today. Marino never got addicted to pain killers either(which by the way, since Favre has never had a major injury or missed time because of an injury, how do you become addicted to them?) Dan is, and always will be the man.
for all those people who say Marino didnt play in bad weather, did they forget what division they are in? let me remind you AFC EAST! Buffalo, NY, New England.
Greenbay didnt play every game in Greenbay in the winter!
To clarify, the leg thing was the achilles injury he suffered in '92. The hip injury he suffered against the Colts when Jim Harbaugh began his captain comeback crusade and the shoulder issue was the pinched nerve. Jimmy strapped him of his audible abilities because the team was so young around him. So, instead of a win now attitude with an aging legend, Jimmy decided to rebuild. F Jimmy!
" Ron in Charlotte said...
Marino tried to control the personnel in MIami throughout his career. He never had a run game or a defense."
Dude, that's B.S. How many times did Marino say he rather have a running game and defense, and that he's thrown for 500 yards and 5 touchdowns and he still lost and it pissed him off? You can't blame Marino because the Dolphins had no defense. That's on the personel department AKA Shula. Remember Sammy Smith? Humphries? I've never heard or read anything that said Marino was telling Shula what to do, and do you really think anyone ever told Shula what to do? C'mon man don't just make up stuff. I remember Marino trying to talk Shula into getting Deion Sanders and offering to take a pay cut in 94, that was well documented. Did Deion play Receiver or O-line? Get the facts straight man
Didn't Mandy have a very similair article during the year? I'll stand by what I said then. NO QB will EVER be "better" than Marino...He was and will always be the greatest ever...PERIOD. It's not even disputable. I don't need facts or stats...Just WATCH the man throw a ball!
Hey Ron, if your old football cards are talking to you about how organizations were run, you may want to check in to the nearest hospital....It was good for a laugh though.
On the list of accomplishments, the one that sticks out to me is the number of wins -- the only category in which Marino is not #1 or #2. How can he be in the top two in all the other categories and not that one -- probably because, on average, he was playing for worse teams. Football, especially in the salary cap era, is the ultimate TEAM sport, where talent matters not as much as in other sports -- see New England Patriots (before this last year).
Favre ranks below Marino. Well below. It's clear now as it has been for years that he was only playing to break Marino's records, and he'll have those for a few years...but he'll always have his crowning glory of the interception mark.
He was a good quarterback, but he certainly wasn't in Marino's class.
When you put yourself and your agenda always above the team and carry an ego greater than that of T.O....that's not exactly Marino or Montana.
The proof is in the stats. Dan Marino is by far the better QB of the 2. Just look at the following:
TD's per game: 1.72 to 1.82 advantage Marino
TD's per Year (16 Games) 27.52 to 29.09 advantage Marino
yds per game - 239.90 to 265.63
Advantage Marino
Yards per year (16 Games) 3838 to 4250 Advantage Marino
Interceptions per game - 1.13 to 1.09 Advantage Marino
Interceptions per year (16 games) 17.93 to 17.45 Advantage Marino
Sacks per Game - 1.71 to 1.17 Advantage Marino
Sacks per year (16 Games) 27.33 to 18.70 Advantage Marino
Fumbles per game - .57 to .25 Advantage Marino
Fumbles per year - 9.15 to 3.95 Advantage Marino
TD per completion - .082 to .085 Advantage Marino
TD per attempt .050 to .050 Even for both Players
Clearly this shows that Marino was a far better QB in every aspect. The numbers don't lie. Favre is a good QB but Marino was a great QB on weak teams throughout his career. Had he been in SanFrancisco, or Dallas during their runs he too would have many super bowl rings to sport, but unfortunately it didn't work out that way for him.
Now for all of you who say Favre is a better QB just take a look at the numbers I have posted and shut your traps!
Mike
Daytona Beach
God I hate this debate. You can't win. No one can. Nothing can be proven either way. Different teams, differnt systems, different talent around them, and different divisions, different eras actually.
I consider myself the biggest Marino fan in the world, but what diehard Phins fan doesn't? I just loved to watch the guy play. Favre is fun to watch too, and while he passed Dan's records...I'll use a quote from Dan himself when Favre passed the TD record. Dan said..."He Brett...what took you so long".
After arguing this hundreds of times (literally!) with fans of Elway, Montana, Favre, Unitis, Brady, Manning, Bradshaw, and Staubach...I've come to the conclusion there's only one way for me to make my point.
If you can have ANY of them in their prime to play a full season with equal teams...who would it be?
There is no question for me...NONE...Zero. Dan was magical. Period. There has never been, and will never be anyone I'd take over him. To me...he's Jordan but never got his Pippen to get over the hump. Actually there is another guy I'd put in that group, but some don't...Dan Fouts. The second best pure passer I've ever seen.
Dan was amazing. After watching him play dozens of games live...I can honestly say...he did things no one else has with the ball.
For me the guy who best rivals Dan for best ever...is Brady. Sadly. While Brady doesn't have the mechanics...he has a Montanaesque mind, and more physical tools than Montana had.
He would be a close second. Favre, for me, is a top 10 guy. Somewhere around 6 or 7.
Oh, and Ron, you and I usually agree, but I couldn't disagree more about Dan trying to control the roster. The only thing Dan controled were the plays and audibles. Atleast until JJ screwed that up.
As much as I love Don Shula he never helped Marino out with a good defense. Marino would put 35-40 points on the board every single game and would still end up losing. If Marino had more of a supporting cast he would have had a ring too and this wouldn't even be a question
I'm biased towards Marino, so I cant be objective.
BUT I will say this:
Favre's "consecutive starts" record is a sham. I saw a game a few years back (dont remember the exact season) but Favre was hurt and couldn't play in the game. But rather than let his streak come to an end, he suited up, took the first snap of the game, handed the ball off to the running back, then trotted off the field for the rest of the game.
That stinks, in my opinion.
Marino. Favre played more seasons which is why he surpassed most of Marino's records. Favre was more successful but Marino was better than him
Being a Dolphin Fan, I may be biased but I also know that Marino never once had:
1: A running game that actually could sell a play action pass.
2: A defense that would get the ball back in his hands quickly, on a regular basis.
3: A receiver of the caliber of a Jerry Rice.
I wonder how many Super bowls he would have won had he one or all of the above.
Marino is the best, period.
Let's not forget that Marino's last few seasons were played under a conservative offense when the clamps were put on Marino. This severely affected his latter years production in terms of TD passes. I don't believe Favre's offensive coordinator's ever pulled back the reigns on him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe so.
You Forgot that Brett was the career leader in interceptions. Dan will always be the man in my mind. Dan would be the career in most of those if were not for freak of nature injury. He's Achilles popped with no one touching him. The critics will never put him up there with the greats, because he never one a Superbowl. The thing to me that makes Dan the greatest QB to play the game. Everyone knew that the Dolphins had no running game. There game plan was to stop Marino, and most of the time they couldn't. I thing Dan at his age is still better then most of the QB's that have tried to replace him. Dolphins Forever!
You Forgot that Brett was the career leader in interceptions. Dan will always be the man in my mind. Dan would be the career in most of those if were not for freak of nature injury. He's Achilles popped with no one touching him. The critics will never put him up there with the greats, because he never one a Superbowl. The thing to me that makes Dan the greatest QB to play the game. Everyone knew that the Dolphins had no running game. There game plan was to stop Marino, and most of the time they couldn't. I thing Dan at his age is still better then most of the QB's that have tried to replace him. Dolphins Forever!
One thing I dont get is people forget who the all time interception leader is. You guessed it, Brett Favre. People will say "Brett Favre played in bad weather." Well guess what? not all games are home. The division games for Favre were Vikings (dome) Detroit (dome) and Chicago. Marino played in New York (outside) New England (outside) Buffalo(outside). Also, its has been known to rain heavily in South Florida. Favre had a running game. Defenses knew Marino was passing the ball all the time and he still completed it. Did I say Fravre was the all time interception leader? If we want to talk toughness on the field, Favre is tough but played doped up, Marino went out there practically lookin like a cyborg with all the braces he had to wear. He became a total sitting duck and still hung in there. If the question is which qb had the most success with thier team, the answer is Favre. Who's the better qb, gotta be Marino but Favre is close.
I must say that if Marino had a 1300 yard running back one time, and a defense that could stop buffelo he would have won his superbowls and there would be no DEBATE. Marion #1..the problem is that people think superbowls are the way to judge a quaterback and hell Eli Manning just won a superbowl and John Elway won his superbowls without even having 200 yards in the games played. Marino , and Fouts are the best passers in the game bottom line and they need to stop screaming Montana, Now Farve is right behind Marion, Fouts, Elway, and Unitas.
One thing that often is not mentioned is Marino's lack of a viable running game. the only 1,000 yard rusher he ever had was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. So every week defenses keyed only on the passing game and yet Marino still was able to accumulate massive numbers. I feel this makes Marino's numbers more accomplished.
If Marino could have stayed healthy for 253 games, he would have obliterated Favre's numbers. However, Favre does have a Superbowl win and managed to stay healthy, so you have to give him props for that.
However, if I were drafting a team with these two guys in their prime, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd take Marino, with or without "teal" glasses on!
"Why are ALL Jewish people Democrats.
They should be Republicans."-- Armando Salguero, 790 The Ticket, with Sid Rosenberg.
Dear Mando-
Since Sidney chose to deflect your provocative issue with irony-- another classic Jewish trait incidentally-- permit me the opportunity to answer you.
First of all, not ALL Jews are Republican. In Presidential elections, the Jewish vote for the Democratic nominee ranges from between 65% (McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis) to 78% (Clinton/Gore)
Now, why don't Jewish voting patterns conform to their economic earnings like most White Americans, which I take it is why you think they "ought" to be Republican?
Well, because most Jews know themselves to be outsiders in a Christian country and feel more at home in a Democratic party that embraces a pluralist and secular vision of America.
In contrast, most Jews find the outlook of the Religious Right that increasingly dominates the Republican party as wholly anathema.
After all, Jews know too well that evangelicals would much prefer to convert us heathens or send us to Israel when at the Second Coming we all will be converted or killed. What's more, most Jews recoil from the evangelicals' mission of legislating a morality on political issues like abortion, stem cell research, and public prayer that deviates so dramatically from Jews' own religious and moral convictions on these very issues.
There are a number of other historical, cultural, and religious influences that also wed Jews to the Democratic party, like the Jewish religion's commitment to social justice, our history as a persecuted minority in Europe which causes us to identify with persecuted minorities here, and the discrimination and prejudice Jews faced in the US until quite recently.
Funny you should ask the question though Mando. Because one could just as easily invert it and ask you the same: Why do Cubans still identify so viscerally with the Republican party?
How long can you blame the Democratic party for JFK and the Bay of Pigs?
The Cold War is over, Communism is dead and Fidel and Ramon will soon join it in the dustbin of history.
Perhaps Cubans should join
every other Hispanic community in the US and start voting Democratic.
If Marino has wheels he would have been a bike. He didn't have wheels, he didn't have a great running game, he didn't have a great defense.
He also didn't have the ability to stay healthy late in his career like Favre did. And he did have better receivers in Duper, Clayton and Fryar than Favre ever had. It all evens out and still Favre put up a more successful career.
Favre was better.
So did free agency end for us or what? havent heard a thing about who we might try going for in 3 days...
This is such a ridiculously stupid topic to argue about. Seriously,,,,,stop it. But I will say we are going to have one hell of a special teams unit next year. It will be nice to see someone get tackled before the 50 yard line for a change! Grigsby is a maniac on special teams. He would throw his body in front of an 18 wheeler if the coaches asked him to. NYScott
Dear Jewish Democrat --
At the risk of starting a debate on here, I am going to answer your post.
Thanks for getting my quote correct. But, with all due respect, that's where you stopped being right.
I don't believe jewish people should be republicans based on economic standing. I believe jewish people should be republicans based on moral standing.
Republicans traditionally back Israel without equivication on issues of politics while democrats play the middle ground, holding that the Palestinians also have rights that should be addressed. Ask any Israeli government of the last 30 years who they want in power in America and the answer is always the republicans.
Why is that? Because the evangelical wing of that party -- of which I guess I belong -- love Israel. As a Christian, I am not called to convert my jewish brothers, I am called to appreciate what they have done, what they continue to do, and what scripture says they will do in the future.
The first Christians, you see, were jewish. Jesus Christ was jewish. The first part of my Bible -- the old testament -- is the same as the jewish torah. Word for Word. And that Bible says that those who bless bless the seed of Abraham (Israel) will be blessed by God and those who curse Israel will be cursed by God.
The Bible further states the jewish people are God's chosen people and that, as Christians, were are ingrafted into the family of jews in God's eyes.
You obviously are not aware that tourism to Israel is thriving. Call the Israeli embassy sometime as ask what group of people most visit that country as tourists. The answer you'll get is that even in the face of daily Palestinian rocket attacks, even amid murmuring throughout the west against Israel, Christians flock to the Holy Land as tourists in droves. I went two years ago and hope to go back some day. And Israel welcomes us because we neither go there to convert nor kill jews. We are not the misguided crusaders.
Finally, you say communism is dead and imply Cubans should get with the hip new program of the 21st century that realizes that.
Well, please inform the world's 2 billion Chinese and 13 million Cubans still on the island that Communism is dead. Please tell the nearly 500 million russians who just witnessed a fraud of an election that communism and its totalitarian cousins are dead. Please tell the folks of Colombia, who are now under threat by the socialist government of Venezuela that communism and socialism are dead. They'll all be very happy to hear that news.
LETS TAKE IT EASY ON THE RELIGION AND ETHNIC BACK GROUNDS. HERE ANYWAYS, AFTER ALL THIS IS A FOOTBALL BLOG. OF ALL PEOPLE ARMANDO, YOU THINK YOU WOULD KNOW THAT.
It's Armando's blog, you idiot ryiot dork. He can take this any direction he feakin' wants. He's answering a reader's direct questions. And I thought reading his point of view was interesting.
You forgot. Favre is the leader in interceptions too. Hello.
I saw Marino interview Brett Favre this year - I believe on CBS - When Dan Marino mentioned it hurt to see his TD record broken by Brett - Brett replied " I would never consider myself in your class as a QB." I thought that was an amazing compliment by Brett Favre - I believe Mr Favre was being honest; he also is one of the best ever - but Marino is truly the Greatest QB of all Time -Defense and running wins Super Bowls - he controlled one-side of the ball - When in his hands, Dan Marino was clutch, fearless and a winner - It is unfortunate that JJ became his coach at the end of his career - JJ definetly hampered Marino's numbers
Jim Brown was a great running back. Everyone who surpassed his stats are great running backs also. But the subjective "who is better" is a silly concept.
I hate to say it (cause I'm a Dolphin fan going on 38 years and cringe at the Patriots) but Tom Brady has been a better quarterback for his team than both Farve and Marino. Bradshaw and Montana also. The rings are why they play (aside from money). And who has more rings? But it remains a silly idea.
Marino's the man over Favre, however you might want to include Sammy Baugh with the other greats mentioned.
I believe that republicans, or should I say "conservatives", are the most synical, nasty, self-centered hippocrites I've ever met. For instance, they refuse to accept evolution thoery, which has at least some basis in fact, but at the same time live the "dog-eat-dog" ethos of pulling oneselves up by their own bootstraps crap...which sounds a heck of a lot like social darwinism. Superior-than-thou white religious zealots are akin to terrorists...except our fat, old white conservative republicans use manipulation and have the money to control this world without having to blow things up. A minor difference from terrorists.
So, Armando, if our current had president paid any attention to the Isreali - Palestine conflict when he took office, instead of ignoring it completely while trying to figure a way into Iraq, perhaps there would have been less violence over the past 8 years. Since Isreal IS our foothold in that region for some time now, is it any wonder why middle-eastern nations may feel like we let our "dog on their lawn". It has never really about religion. Or morality.
As for who should be a republican? An old expression, "There is nothing more pathetic than a poor republican."
Evolution? When was the last time someone witnessed a monkey becoming a man? When was the last time a glob of slime "evolved" into a fish? And people say Adam and Eve suspends reality.
And, anonymous, there's also the other expression, "ignorance is bliss."
Dan Marino was extremely consistent
throughout his career. He was a dominant dart thrower from the moment he stepped onto the football field.
Think about how many patchwork offensive lines he played behind and was still able to dance around the pocket and fire cannon balls downfield. Not only did he have the best throwing arm in NFL history but he had the best pocket presence.
Too close to call. You can't put one over the other. Too many variables. 2 of the greatest QB's to play the game though.
Why don't some of you have the courage to sign your names? Even before I joined A.S.'s blog...I signed the end of my comments.
Step up and be accountable.
~JinVA
To the guy above who picked Favre...over Marino...based on Duper and Clayton and Fryar. Are you kidding? Antonio Freeman and Keith Jackson, Mark Chumura, Dorsey Levens, Edgar Bennett, William Henderson, and let's not forget the game Desmond Howard had!Not only did they play in their prime with Favre...they were all with him when he won his ONE SB ring. In Dan's trip...name the supporting cast he had...Duper...Clayton...and T. Nathan. Wow...that will bowl you over won't it? Irving Fryar...in the twilight of his career. Wow...yeah...he's stellar. O.J. McDuffie? Yeah right.
In reality...the name that really put Favre over the top...wasn't a receiver...or a TE. It was the minister of defense. Non other than Reggie White. One of the best DE's of all time.
How many rings did Favre win without Reggie?
That's what I thought.
1:46 seconds left in the game, you're on your own 27. You have Randy Moss wide left, Stallworth wide right and Wes Welker in the slot.
On the sideline you have Favre or Marino. Who will you put in the game to win it all at the end.
Answer:
Dan Marino- clutch, ferocious competitor, pinpoint accuracy, quick releas, and you always knew he could do it.
Favre is the greatest football player of all time.
Now comparing QB's I think we've seen has proven fruitless, cause they all are very different. I guess you have to say would their teams have won had he not been at the helm?
For Favre I'd have to say with the talent that team had over his career sure they would've won, a SB I dont' know but they'd still have won.
For Marino the answer is NO! All Dan had was the Marks brothers no true running game to speak of, No elite defense to keep it close so a great QB could pull it out. Marino kept the Phins where they were all on his right arm.
But Favre is the better football player, Dan's the better QB.
It's clear Marino is the standard. Just ask Bret Favre.
Marino also had Keith Jackson and had him in his prime. He was traded to GB, in one of the more dumb moves by the Dolphins, because they feared he would retire.
Another example of us sucking.
Armando says:
"Guys, I didn't put interceptions in there. Know what? I didn't put Super Bowl victories or appearances in there either."
One is an individual stat, the other a team stat.
You asked whether Farve surpassed Marino, then forgot to list an important individual statistic, got blasted in several posts, and then countered by throwing out a team stat? Weak...
Heck, the Dolphins team has better cheerleaders (by default, Packers have none). There! Can we now go back to comparing the PLAYERS?
Thanks Armando for responding and I appreciate the thoughts you've devoted to the subject and the obvious affection for Israel you harbor.
So it's with great reluctance I have to correct a few misconception you seem to hold.
1) The Christian Bible's Old Testamant is not identical to the Hebrew Bible, let alone the Torah (the latter of which only consists only of the Bible's first Five Books) The Roman Catholic Church's Old Testament, for example, canonized the Aprocrypha texts that the Jewish Bible excludes. (Perhaps, the demonination to which you belong conforms more closely to the Hebrew Bible. I'm not as familiar with Protestant denominations as I am with Roman Catholicism. )
2) Historically, the Democratic party actually has been the party that most consistently and vocifeously supported Israel, not the Republican Party. Reagan and Little Bush have been the exceptions. Eisenhower, Dulles, Big Bush, and Baker have been the rule. Then too, despite William Buckley's expulsion of them from The National Review, anti-Semitic cranks have always found the conservative movement, in general, and the Republican party, in particular, hospitable ground. Ever heard of a guy who goes by the name of "Pitchfork" Pat Buchanan.
3) Apart from the small segment of American Jewry that identifies with Israel's national and religious right-wing Likud party, most American Jews don't welcome evangelicals support for Israel, quite frankly.
And while I have no doubt you're sincere in your enlightened respect for the Jewish religion, most Jews are well aware that prominent evangelicals from James Dobson to Pat Robertson to the late Jerry Falwell have supported Israel for the most cynical and prejudicial of reasons-- to abet the Second Coming, the advent of which, they believe, will bring about the day when Christ converts all the Jews and/or sends the unrepentant to the Inferno.
4) I hope I speak for many Democrats when, to quote Thomas Jefferson, I swear my abiding hatred for all forms of tyranny, where they wear the garb of communism or fascism or national chauvinism, from the shores of Havana to the tundras of Moscow to deserts of Iraq, let freedom ring.
I only ask that American keep in mind John Quincy Adams in the meantime, "America goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own... She might become the dictatress of the world. [But] She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit..."
Good debating with you Mando. You're pretty smart for a Republican. Just kidding.
BTW, in my book, no one's better than Dan Marino. End of discussion.
"yawn" all of a sudden i've become sleepy... I've always wanted a good bedtime story
What is the win/loss record of a Miami/Marino versus Green Bay/Favre. ????
Based on the stats, Marino had around 400 less attempts, and around 400 less completions, and still only had 294 yards less than Favre. And one stat you didn't put up there, is how many more games Favre played than Marino. Marino practically missed an entire season with his achilles injury. They both won MVP's and they both went to superbowls. Yes Favre won one, but lets be honest, he wasn't facing one of the greatest teams of all time like the dolphins were when they went to the Super Bowl. Marino is DEFINITELY the better QB.
I hear that Favre just wanted out of GB, and wants to play one more year. He would be a perfect fit in Miami for a year to help with the young guns. I hope Coach Parcells reaches out to him.
Everyone claims that Favre was so good because his personal life was always out there, and they sympathize with him. I live in Wisconsin, and watched Favre screw up countless games. The pressure would come, and he would huck it up. He would lose three games a year, though only one or two in his last season, due to an excellent offensive system and supporting cast. Favre or Marino with a 2 minute drill, you choose Marino. He had more 4th quarter comebacks in his career than any QB.
Did Marino ever throw more picks in a year than TD passes? Favre did.
Fact is, Favre never had the great games or seasons that Marino had, and Marino never had the bad games and seasons that Favre had.
Interceptions aside, Favre fumbled six times in a game twice, once in the playoffs. When the man messed up, he really messed up.
Let's not get carried away here guys, Marino is way better than Favre. Brett lucked up and won the Title in the nineties because Dallas and San Francisco were on the slide. Also, he just hung around to break Dan's records. I understand he's the media darling, but I don't like him and never will consider him a great quarterback, durable but not great.
Hey, anybody catch that game two years ago when Favre had run a half yard for a first on third down, and had the endzone in front of him, but then threw the ball when he was past the line of scrimmage. For all the crazy great plays he had, he really had some seriously bad ones. I cannot say that for Danny.
True that, he definitely stayed around just to beat Marino`s records. I will be rooting for Rodgers this year. He almost beat Dallas this year after Favre had put them in a huge hole.
And for him only losing one or two this year, I watched him lose two to Chicago, and he was horrendous against Dallas.
Does anyone know that Marino would have the longest streak for an active QB behind Favre if it were not for the strike year? The strike year ruined everyone who played in the late 80s streak. Therefore that record is distorted.
anyone who says brett is better than dan just isnt a true fan of dan marino... with that being said brett is right up there but not at the same stature as dan
there is so many different things that make it like that, and mainly because i'm a dolphins fan and i grew up watching him.
brett favre will go down of one of the best, much like marino, except in my mind marino is the best ever.
First off Marino is my all time favorite QB. As far as in comparison to Favre, if Wanny had not pushed Marino out prematurely then Dan has at least two more years of padding the stats like Farve did.
Would he have won the big game? Not likely with the management he had working with him, but his numbers would still be at the top of the list
Two things: The fact is quarterbacks are rated on their Super Bowl victories. That's just the way it is and even Marino has admitted as much.
Secondly: The Torah and the New Testament (non denominational) are exactly the same documents. No doubt about that. I don't know about catholics, but protestant evangelicals use the exact same documents -- that go back as far as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Sorry jew dem.
What about these stats based upon the number of games played...Favre may be slightly higher, but didn't he play more games to get there? Also, the new rules can make my grandma a pro bowl player. Before you were allowed to mutilate the receivers down the field, now the receivers can push off at will. More and more tds are jumbballs too. hat being said it is impossible to determine this answer. Things are just different.
I would like to know the TD/INT ratio for both, does anybody know?
Brett hung around for a final year to play 15 more games, throw 22 more TD's, 36 more interceptions, 400 more attempts, 410 more completions, 294 more yards and fumble it 37 more times in his career.
Both got beat in their final game (playoffs - Marino got thumped vs. Jax 62-7) - BUT - Brett Favre's final pass was a game sealing pick...
Both lost a Super Bowl, and Favre won one in the 2 he played in.
Hall of Famer and a great player. He gets into the HOF in 2013. Deep down, you have to admit, with a huge game on the line - you'd rather have Marino, right? I would.
I just checked... Favre had 18,67 completion for every pick, Marino had 19,71. Favre had 1,53 TD pass vor every pick, Marino had 1,66 I'm from Brazil and whatching Dan play made me a football fan. Favre won the big game, no doubt about that, but as anonymous said, "Deep down, you have to admit, with a huge game on the line - you'd rather have Marino, right?"
Marino and Favre are so close statistically but I firmly believe that Dan's accomplishments are the greater because he did it with much less around him (especially the second half of his career, post-Clayton/Duper) and because of the offensive (and especially passing) explosion that took place in the heart of Favre's era. Dan's receivers had a tougher go of it in his heyday than Brett's.
I have to say though, I prefer Brett's movie cameo (Something about Mary) to Dan's (Ace Ventura). And in my book, these guys are about as even as you can get. Give them the same 10 offensive players around them and a similar defense to go against, and I bet they go .500 against each other.-chris
your question is ass backwards... it should be, "where does Dan Marino rank relative to Brett Favre?" ...and the answer is in the stats... SECOND
hey jewish democrats... don't ya just love all the support Jimmy Carter had for Isreal? anyway... while you are quoting our famous and beloved forefathers that would not in a million years be capable of fathoming today's America... which one was it that said, "every generation needs a new revolution?"
Greatest Qb's
1. Johnny Unitas
2. Joe Montana
3. Dan Marino
4. John Elway
5. Joe Namath
okay, times up... that was Thomas Jefferson as well...
...enough of the trivia... on to bigger and better things... like this generations cause for revolution... which should be ridding our country of the spineless slime that HASNT quite evolved to human form yet otherwise known as liberals... that would be a great idea for a revolution... who's game?
WOW!! Great Topic Armando. (yeah I said it)Did you pick a great debate!! And in this town you are asking Dolfans to be objective about Marino? You are a bold man. No doubt. Just imagine asking this question at the Doral Ale House during a Dolphin game. The would not be pretty. But it is a great question thoug. Which gunslinger is greater? Usually the one left standing after the gunfight. To me Marino v. Favre is the best QB debate possible. The other greats had different dimensions but except for Favre's mobility, they were both the same type of QB. Gunslingers. My rocket arm will get me the win, even though it will cost me. I give the edge very slightly to Favre because of his mobility. As passers, they are neck and neck, but because of Marino's lack of mobility he had to be a better passer to make things happen. So Marino is the greatest passer of all time. Maybe someday Peyton, but until that day my passer is Marino. But overall QB, gotta go with Favre. His scrambling meant a play could be extended or recovered from nothing. And though this sometimes got him in more trouble with mistakes, it made him just that much more dangerous. So Overall, gotta go with Favre (Painkillers and all).
Brett has the ring; Marino doesn't!
Marino is a better pure passer than Brett. Never have I seen any QB with Dan's release and accuracy. Brett is great and has the ability to improvise better than any other. A ton of people are mentioning the lack of running game and defense. Folks what about the lack of good RECEIVERS! Quick name me a top quality receiver after Duper and Clayton? You can't! OJ McDuffie? Irving Fryer? Keith Jackson (after his prime)? It was a crying shame that one the best arms in NFL history never had a top flight receiver after Duper and Clayton. Bret has had a ton of nice receivers, his entire career. Brett is great, but I'd take Dan in his prime.
I've been living in Miami all my life. Grew up a Dolphins fan and still am one. But I think Brett Favre is a greater QB than Marino. I know everyone is going to say that Marino played all of his career without a running game but Marino had alot more talent at the WR position than Favre had. Favre just made his WR better. Anyways we will be having this conversation again in a couple of years because Peyton Manning will go down as the greatest QB, pure passer, quickest release ever.
how is this even debatable...marino, without a defense or running back his WHOLE career , was just as succesful and the defenses KNEW what he was gonna do. farve i love but totally erratic- not even close. PUT MARINO ON GREEN BAYS TEAMS AND HE WOULDA WON 6 SUPER BOWLS AT LEAST ...and HE DID IT AT 23!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAN MARINO WAS THE GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!
I say they go down as two of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game, Joe Montana is the greatest
Cowboys Fan in Miami(and you see although Aikman is also one of the greatest I did not choose him)3 rings baby
THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER MARINO BEST OF ALL TIME HANDS DOWN! BRYAN IN OHIO
marino, worst qb ever.
Favre always had a decent running game to compliment his passing. I would also argue that he had a better O-Line (on-average) throughout his career (excluding the Dwight Stevenson era of course). Had Marino done what Jim Kelly did when he got to Buffalo, Dan the Man probably would have 2 rings in the chamber as ammunition in an argument like this. Jim Kelly, of course, demanded a running game, or else he threatened to go back to Cananda.
Marv Levy's response: Thurman Thomas...and the rest is history...
Call me ANONYMOUS LOU (since I don't have an account and don't really want one) if you want to address my post.
I know that this isn't answering the call of the question, but I must make this statement. I think a better question than "who is 'better'" is "who would you want under center with two minutes left and you need a touchdown to win the Superbowl." I think that question, answered honestly would cause some biases to fall away. I'm a Dolfan and Dan Marino is MY Quarterback; my man-crush will never die! Brett has the better stats and the SB ring and the perseverence. So, honestly speaking, he's at LEAST "as great." But for the scenario that I'm drawn, I want none other than JOHN ELWAY under center -- hands down!!
Are you kidding me, just look at how many more years Farve needed to surpass Marion’s records, is Dan played for a few more years, the records would be unreachable. that says a lot. I think Farve played last year just to broke the records, nothing else. and if he wouldn’t achieve that last year he would played this year just to accomplished it. CARLOS
If Marino would've stay playing for a few more years, Favre would never catch up to him.
Still Danny will always be the best quickest releaser ever. & will always be Miami's Kid along with his best coach, Shula.
Sorry Dol-Fans, but as a fan of another AFC East team that shall remain nameless in order to stay on topic, because Marino never won a Super Bowl, most NFL fans will hold Favre in HIGHER regard AND Marino was NOT in "Something About Mary" LOL !!! See you in September when we'll all be "Ready for Some Fooootball!"
Dan Marino - 242 games played
Favre - 257 games played
15 games for Marino is 3,700 yards and 30 touchdowns (on the conservative side)...not to mention all the attempts, etc
In how many games or years Mondo ?
Favre is below Marino because Favre is a bottom ! LMAO !!!
Dan had the knee injury that kept him out almost a full season. If not for that, those numbers would have been unreachable
Carlos... more games, yes... more years, no. They both played in 17 seasons. The numbers and the debate ends soon as Manning or even Brady will own all the records anyway... and look so much better doing it!
Dan is the best ever period! Heres a statistic I'd like to know. How long (offensively) did it take for Dan to put up the numbers he did throughout his career versus the time it took Brett to. Dan never had a defense so the opponent had the ball alot and for extended amounts of time in most cases. I Guarantee You it took Dan Marino alot less time, clock wise. You know why, because Dan is the Man! I wonder if ESPN has a statistic on that? I sure would like to know!
There are 2 ways of categorizing best of all time.
By sheer talent or by the overall package.
Unfortunatley for us Dolphin fans, the majority of people do it by the later.
Dan Marino was by far the superior talent to Favre. As a matter of fact, Marino is probubly the greatest pound for pound Passer of all time. He was more physically gifted, and as previously stated, everyone knew he was passing every down, and he was still that effective. He had the career he had with sub par running games and defenses AND in a shorter amount of time.
Fa-v-re was the better all around QB. And yes this is scewed a bit, because the better all around guys coincidentally happened to have the better talent on their teams (pro bowlers galore, superbowl rings to spare, ect). Favre was stronger emotionally and put his body on the line every play of every game.
Bottom line . . . Dan Marino is the greater passer. Brett Favre was the better QB package. Take it as you will.
Are we seriously letting chatman being picked up by the jets....... That blows, but on the flip side hey hey, atleast its not the patriots
I meant Old Testament. Excuse me.
What do you mean Chatman to the Jets!
They are both great, but look at the choice this way:
Down by 6 in the last minute of the game, who would you want more on your team?
Or this way: Who makes you BELIEVE his team can win even when they are NOT supposed to?
Dan Marino is my choice by far.
Outside of South Florida, Dan Marino is rarely mentioned. Marino played for Shula & Johnson, so I'm tired of hearing how he played on bad teams. Favre was not the greatest, but most would take Brett over Dan any day.
Yea well most don't know anything about football
Het anonymous afc east fan. Favre might have been in There's Something About Mary but you forgot about Marinos stellar performance in Ace Ventura Pet Detective. He should have won an oscar for that! NYScott
"Outside of south Florida Dan Marino is rarely mentioned". HAHAHAHAAHAHA. You're joking right? The guy who held almost every passing record for the past ten years is rarely mentioned? You sir, are a nincompoop. NYScott
Hi Guys,
I'm logging on from Ireland to see what's happening approaching the draft and you're discussing politics and religion, I thought sport was the only place where one could avoid politics and religion, Armando, you are supposed to be a professional, are you for real??!
Bryan
This is always an interesting question. I think that Brett is one of the greatest QB's to play the game no doubt about it! However, better than Marino? I don't think so. It has already been said that Marino never had a balanced offense, which Brett did for most of his career. Here are a couple of interesting stats that haven't been mentioned, but worth considering. Completion percentage: Marino 59.4%, Favre 50.5%.
4,ooo yard seasons: Marino 6, Favre 4.
Seasons with 40 or more TD's: Marino 2(NFL Record), Favre 0.
Season's Played: Marino 16, Favre 17.
Let's be real the only reason that Brett came back is to get into the record books. I agree that you have to take into account that Brett won a Super Bowl, but that is where I feel you have to look at the difference in the rule changes and having a balanced offense. Both players played the game with the mind set of leaving nothing on the field and you have to admire them for that. But don't worry Farve fans, Brett will make it into the Hall of Fame for sure, and Marino will get to welcome him to the club! Dan's the MAN!
No doubt Dan Marino is the best all around QB. Anyone who watched his career realizes the stats he left behind were HIS pure abilities. Sure Super Duper and Clayton were top-notch receivers .. but come on - NO RUNNING game during Marino's tenure. Compare to Farve, Manning, Elway or Montana. They did have a running game .. for those QB's to rely on. It does help having a dependable, accountable backfield. I never ever understood why the franchise never seeked a franchise running back.
Despite it all, Dan was basically ousted out by hairspray coach, Johnson. My biggest fault with Wayne was allowing that to happen. It's been downhill since then. I always believed Marino had playing time left .. just rushed back on the field still injured and then devasted by results. I'm sure any professional, respected athlete would've thrown in towel at that point.
Brett played more games - I wonderf what kind of totals Dan could've posted if he didn't have the injuries. We wouldn't be comparing apples if he had an OL to protect him and a running game - like the other QB's in comparison!
Besides, anyone who thinks Marino lacks QB intelligence compared to Peyton .. needs to be reply films. You must be kidding me! Marino made quick decisions with a rocket of a release. A wonderful QB born with one of the purest passing arms most will ever see!
Speaking of stats we can't leave out:
Number of correct win/loss guesses on "Inside the NFL" Marino - 1,649 Favre - 0
Pounds lost for a Nutrisystem commercial: Marino - 40 Favre - 0
No but seriously. The stats on Marino and Favre are really statistically insignificant. They are close and you can always consider the extra playing time Favre had and the rule changes after Marino retired. So I will revert to my humble opinion (being a Dolfan makes that kind of biased). Dan the Man had poise and control. His quick release has never been duplicated. The best thing I remember about Dan is the 4th quarter comebacks. Remember how many times he came back to score in the last 2 minutes. Down by 6 points and less than 2 minutes on the clock meant nothing. Dan more often than not drove the team for the score and win. Since he retired we have not had that. The last few years, if the Dolphins are down by 6 points at the beginning of the 4th quarter, people are already heading home. Favre has won the big game, but Marino has not. Can we blame Dan for that? No! Football is a team sport as some of you have pointed out.
My only complaint about Marino was when he would yell and tear down his players when something went wrong. It was never his fault. That had to contribute to some resentment and poor morale.
That is just my humble opinion.
SWFLA Fan
Both Played 17 seasons. Marino's last seasons were with no Offense Jimmy Johnson who had Kippy Brown coordinating an offense. Don't forget, Marino played only five or six games the year he tore his Achilles tendon and I believe that is considered a season. If Marino had played that season at the rate he was going Favre wouldn't have those records
i must have missed the part of statistics where you listed the "most interceptions thrown".... Marino was the best pure passer ever....if he played on the 49ers, Bears, or Giants in the 80's, there would have been no last second comebacks in the Superbowl during that time span....
Instead of looking at Tab Perry, why not bring in guys like Bryant Johnson and DJ Hackett who are still available? If we like the recievers we have then fine but i'm not hearing that at all i'm just seeing us going after lower level guys who won't be much cheaper anyways.
Well Favre played more seasons than Dan, if they played the same amount of seasons Dan would still hold those top two records, touchdown passes and most passing yards. So Dan did it better in less time, no Superbowl hurts, but we didn't have Reggie White either.
There are three main reasons why one has to consider Marino better:
1. Favre had a coaching staff that adapted to his capabilities. Miami didn't. Green Bay became a pass first team. While Marino may have thrown just as many passes, I am sure a greater percentage of his were part of a frantic comeback after 3 quarters of trying to run the ball.
2. All NFL passing statistics are on the rise, and have been for quite some time now. Favre is the beneficiary of this.
3. While Favre's career numbers may be slightly better, his peak wasn't as great. Marino in 1984 - 1986 was better than anything Favre ever did.
Of course, largely due to the organization, Favre has some rings, Marino doesn't.
Good points Henry
How about #4:
Dan Marino was sacked 270 times
Brett Favre was sacked 439 times
Favre had 400 more throws, in 15 more games, only 22 more TD's, 36 more picks and 37 more fumbles.
Favre had 169 more sacks, 36 more picks and 37 more fumbles? I'm not so sure how that puts him in higher regard than Danny...
Again - Brett was great - not taking anything away from him - sure fire first ballot Hall of Famer...
But like anon said earlier - with a big game on the line you HAVE to take Marino.
If Favre, Montana, Elway and Unitas played on those Fins teams - they would have the same # of SB rings Danny has...But if Marino played on those guys teams - wouldn't those teams arguably have a few more rings (especially Denver and GB)?
Fun to think about.
Congrats on a great career Brett - but they nicknamed Dan "The Man" for a reason...
Anonymous Marc in AZ
Farve is the better quarterback.
Ever since college, Dan Marino has always tanked when it counted the most and that carried over to his pro career. Farve, at best, was not supposed to last past four seasons. Luckly Ron Wolf GM of the Packers (who the Dolphins wouldn't hire) saw greatness in Farve.
Marino is simply the second best pure passer behing Slingin' Sammy Baugh. Marino sabotaged the Miami Dolphins for years before Jimmy Johnson came and ensued in a power struggle with Marino.
The reason why Miami wasn't committed to a running game lies with Dan Marino. Troy Stradford stated that while he was with the Dolphins, they worked on pass protection 90 percent of the time instead of run blocking. They were not committed to running the ball.
No quarterback out of the Class of 83 came into a better situation than Marino. When Marino was drafted, the Dolphins had the number 1 defense in the NFL and had come off a Super Bowl loss to the Redskins. Miami back then ALWAYS had a receiving corps that you had to look out for.
Miami had players that WOULD have went over the 1,000 yard mark if Marino was comitted to the running game. Mark Higgs had 907 in 1991. Bernie Parmalee got close. Many of the backs that the Dolphins had could have got to that magical number had Marino WANTED a running game.
It wasn't until Jimmy Johnson drafted Karim Abdul-Jabbar and made Marino hand the ball off that the Dolphins got their first 1,000 yard back since Delvin Williams in 1978. Marino simply just wanted to throw the ball.
The stats also show that Miami, at times, had more than an adequate defense and offense to make it to the Super Bowl. The 85 team lost to New England in the AFC Championship at the OB in which Marino played poorly. The 91 Dolphins lost in Buffalo 44-34 with a top five defense that year. The 92 Dolphins lost the AFC Championship Game to Buffalo 29-10. Marino stunk up JRS. And let's not even talk about the debacles at San Diego and Jacksonville.
Truth is the during the last eight years of his career, Marino was a very average quarterback. Wouldn't exercise or workout but wanted to show up and throw the ball. He's the only player that got away with overruling Don Shula.
Farve had a great arm and never asked management to change from the West Coast offense. He did some boneheaded things that reminded you of plays that you tried to make in sandlot football. He was good for the game. Farve played with some average backs and had success (Edgar Bennett, Dorsey Levins, Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport and Ryan Grant last year). Farve didn't ming calling a running play or audibling to a run.
A running play was like cancer to Dan Marino.
I always hear this stuff about Marino not having a defense or a premier running back and it's garbage. There are teams that have won the Super Bowl with a running back by committee approach (see 1981 49ers, 2001 Patriots) and a bend but don't break defense (95 Cowboys, 96 Broncos). Go back and take a look at some of those Dolphin teams and you'll see that they had the resources to get to the Super Bowl.
Marino, at 37, had 12TD's and 17 interceptions and played poorly, especially at Dallas on Thanksgiving Day. J.J. wanted to pull him but most of you fans down in South Florida cried foul on WQAM and J.J. buckled and kept him in. Farve at least at 37, played better than Marino did and got his team to the NFC Championship Game. Marino got whitewashed in J'Ville 62-7.
Marino was awful in selling play action, became a statue, could hop in the pocket anymore. He became a big liability.
Dan is a top passer but as far as being an overall quarterback, he's not. when Dan Marino came on the scene, he was a Dan Fouts clone that had a quicker release.
If you want the facts on Marino's career, click this link
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=57
The facts don't lie.
Marino is one of the greatest passers but I would take Farve over Marino.
This thread is hilarious!
Big game on the line? Marino?
Lets see 1983 AFC Divisional Game vs Seattle - LOST
Super Bowl - 49ers vs Dolphins - LOST
1985 AFC Championship Game vs Patriots - LOST
1990 AFC Divisional Game at Buffalo - LOST 44-34
1992 AFC Championship Game - Lost to Buffalo 29-10
1995 AFC Divisional Playoff - Was up 21-6 in San Diego and blew the game in the second half - LOST
Lets not even talk about the Jacksonville Game.
So Farve threw more interceptions than Marino. Not by much. How many running plays did Farve call that Marino should have?
If there was a quarterback that I would take for one game it would be Bob Griese who was a better overall quarterback than Marino. Griese was an extension of the coaching staff on the field and knew how to strategically cut the opposing team up like a surgeon. Griese also used intangibles, such as the hard count. Any defensive lineman will tell you that Bob Griese had an amazing talent for pulling linemen offsides.
Rule changes? The NFL opened up the offenses after 1978 not 1992. The first prolific offense didn't belong to the Dolphins but to the San Diego Chargers (with Fouts, Winslow, John Jefferson, Charlie Joiner and later on Wes Chandler and James Brooks).
Marino, more than anything BENEFITTED from the passing rules already having been changed.
Passing rules haven't changed that much since the "bump and run" coverage was banned and you could only bump receivers within five yards. That was established way before Farve ever came on to the scene.
Dan not having talent on offense? Have you ever heard of these guys? Bill Ring, Ricky Patton, Linville Elliott, Earl Cooper and John Frank? That was the 1981 49ers that won the Super Bowl against Cincinatti. The only guy that had star power was Joe Montana. Dwight Clark was a very average receiver and Freddie Solomon who was obtained from Miami had bad hands while he was here and Shula traded him to S.F.
So the argument about talent on offense doesn't wash. The 2001 Rams were more talented on offense than the 2001 Patriots and the patriots beat them in the Super Bowl.
The same goes for the defense too.
I'm a Dolphin fan that has followed Miami since it's maiden year in 1966. Marino isn't even the best quarterback as far as the franchise. he may have all the records but that doesn't nake you great.
Look at guys in college like Andre Ware and David Klingler. They were great in college games but they couldn't elevate to the next level.
The only way that Marino impacted the game was to force defensive coordinators to play nickel and dime packages on first down.
GB fan
Favre's the best because of the spirit with which he played the game. Marino would have all the records if he had played the 242 games Favre did. But then comes the real question: Shouldn't the issue be how many total throws, TDs, completions, etc. in the NFL regardless of number games played? Why in considering Favre's numbers are the 33 playoff games he played in just ignored?
Anonymous 11:03 PM and 11:52 PM. You guys are right on the money. These are the same things I have been saying to anyone who would listen for the last 20 years. Dan Marino was a great passer but not a great quarterback. I too laugh when I hear the "if he only had a running game" bs. Marino could not have had a running game even if you took a pro bowl RB and 5 pro bowl OL players from other teams during his era and put them on the Dolphins. The main reason for this is because Dan Marino was, and remains, the worst ball handling QB I've ever seen in the NFL. The defense always new when the Dolphins were running and consequently there were always more defenders in the backfield than could be blocked. Even 5 pro bowlers can't block 8 guys plain and simple. Dan Marino didn't win a championship because he wasn't good enough. End of story.
ANON 11:55pm
Favre's playoff games are ignored for the most part because he threw more picks than TD's and single handedly kept his team from advancing. Recklessness - a stat no one is mentioning. Ths spirit of the game? Hopped up on pain pills and letting Strahan have a sack record - not the spirit I'm looking for in the NFL...sorry
ANON 11:04am
You've been been "saying to anyone who would listen for the last 20 years. Dan Marino was a great passer..." That's where it needed to end bro... 20 yrs ago was 1988 and Favre was in So Miss playing with roadkill while Marino was re-writing the record books.
I know it's all opinion - coldhard facts.com are morons...
Marino is one of the greatest - Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, Don Shula and Mike Ditka all have stated that publicly. Show me where they said Favre was better...
Yep - that's what I thought - because you can't dispute.
Damn Jets fans trying to steer things up...
:)
Armando,
Why is it that no one including ESPN during their Favre love fest mentions that this guy has thrown more interceptions than anyone else in the NFL? That he is tied for the NFL record for INT's in a single game (6) and has thrown the most INT's in the playoffs. The gunslinger crap cracks me up because accuracy as a passer should account for something. Heck Joey Harrington can throw it up a lot too if you look the other way on all the costly INT's he throws...Give me Marino in a landslide...
Why is it that no one including ESPN during their Favre love fest mentions that this guy has thrown more interceptions than anyone else in the NFL? That he is tied for the NFL record for INT's in a single game (6) and has thrown the most INT's in the playoffs. The gunslinger crap cracks me up because accuracy as a passer should account for something. Heck Joey Harrington can throw it up a lot too if you look the other way on all the costly INT's he throws...Give me Marino in a landslide...
where do these idiots get there info that Marino had behind the scenes control over who the dolphins would pick is there any concrete evidence to abck that up because i'd like to know. if not then please shut up with the conspiracy theories idots.
Most NFL fans will pick Favre because of the SB win and the good ole boy gunslinger reputation that the media has promoted for so long. They're both great QBs, but I'd take Marino.
There is one simple fact and that is Dan is the GREATEST of ALL TIME.
Fact: Dan ruptured his achilles tendon and missed 11 games.
Fact: Dumbass Dave Wanstedt forced Dan out of Miami. With these 2 facts alone If he was allowed to stay Favre and every other QB would still be chasing Dan's records.
Also remember Dan accomplished those records with almost no help. Our defense was bad, no running game and a suspect offensive line for most of his career.
Put Dan on those 49'er or Packer teams and see how many Super Bowls Dan would have won. Put Montana and Favre on those Miami teams and see how much they would have won.
End of Debate. Dan is and always will be the GREATEST!!!!
im 42 yrs old and have watched both qb's through out there careers.
DAN was the man in his time, just like brett was before recently retiring. dan had an awsome arm
and in my opinion had alot more opprotunity because of his outstanding offensive line. were brett did not! he managed with medeokar players or old vets on there way to being has beens. thats why 4-6 times a game brett was licking turf! but he would get up play after play weather his thumb was broke or whatever and still keep playing! i dont think dan could play for 17 seasons in greenbay, and face the -30 degree games that brett played. on an average of at least one COLD ASS MF DAY PER SEASON!that would be one entire season of freezin his footballs off throughout his career. dan couldnt do it. also i would like to say~ if brett played in 70+ degrees for 17 seasons i guarentee you!, you could double bretts records! making him the best qb of all time with no arguement!
ok ill be anon ted,
i would like to know where that guy got his info about marino picking who he wanted on the team rather than the front office, i remember a year in which they had 19 former first round picks on the team, unfortunately they also had 19 huge egos that year on the team and no running game, i do believe that byars was on that team but he was a recieving fb if im not mistaken, so if he was the one responsible for that team, then dont you think they would have responded to his leadership? if he had that much pull in personel decissions?
next i dont understand the down in the fourth stat, that means your team isnt playing that well, and it has alot to do with what the defense does when your on the sideline, so ineffect you really have no control over wether you get the win or not, its more on your defense and so that should be a defensive stat and not the qb, do they keep the stat on qbs that have the lead going into the fourth while they are ahead and lose? i wonder who holds that record?
with all the talk of player enhancement these days shouldnt pain pills in the nfl be included? and i think that if dan could have stood on his own two feet with a brace he would have been in there, but having a torn achillies is rather hard to do. and before that injury i think dans average run was somewhere in the inches department, so the fact that he still had less sacks in his career, when brett could run and often did, makes dans record a little more impressive in that catagory, but yet there again it had more to do with his line, so it is hard to say who is better.
and lastly for dum dem jew
carter was democrat, remember he ran against reagan, ( im 30 and know that one, you can do the math ), second bush didnt take a no stance approach to isreal, he stood against the norm, and required the palastinians to do some giving rather than making isreal give, remember he said that the palastinians needed a different leader than arafat, one who would be able to stand up to terrorists, and not go along with them. i think that american jewish people have long forgotten what it is like to live in fear, like they do in isreal, and have no idea what it was like in europe, is there hatred of jews here? there is hatred of every race/nationality/religious belief in america, but it is no where near what it is like in other countries. the government kill you for those things here. in gw first four years of office the attacks on isreal were some of the lowest in the history of that nation, but if you read the liberal medias take on that then it doesnt matter since they are against anything that would make bush look good.
and to the one that said evolution is scientific fact, where? carbon dating is flawed, and actually theres more scientific fact pointing to a massive flood, so that would account for the different settiments that are found around the world in rock formations then suddenly things getting covered up with tons of sand. why isnt it happening today? shouldnt there be animals that are covered up like has happened so many times before? and yet if you think about it most of the bones and such decay and rot and dry out and become dust before they have the chance to become fossils. thats one that i cant get my mind around, why arent things becoming fossils again? if its a continous cycle?
imagine if marino had a decent rb, and they could sell the play action, how many rings could they have gotten?
brett favre is the best QB that ever played int he NFL and to try and take that away from him by saying he has the most pics or he was on pain killers for 1 year, 1year you shouldn't be a football fan and you should just keep your mouth shut out of respect for the legendary quarterback.
Marino was afirad 2 get hurt u cant say he would have done better than he did he could have gotten hurt, Brett Favre is better because he loves the game more. ( all stats are better.)
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