When all said, done Trent Green will be starter
Today has been a very revealing day for anyone wondering who will be the Dolphins starting quarterback in 2007.
In case you're wondering, it will be Trent Green.
Yes, this takes into account the fact Daunte Culpepper is happy and hopeful because he is feeling no pain in his twice surgically repaired right knee and expects to test it in the Dolphins' next minicamp June 8-10.
Yes, this takes into account the fact rookie John Beck showed an outstanding arm in minicamp practices today.
But mostly it takes into account the facts. And these are the truths as I know them.
Trent Green has a contract in place with the Dolphins. He has been told he can come to Miami and be the starter for one or two years, depending on how he holds up. His quarterback coach in KC (Terry Shea) is now Miami's QB coach. His QB coach in Washington years ago (Cam Cameron) is now Miami's head coach. And the offense the Dolphins are going to run this year?
Green knows it better than several of Miami's offensive coaches.
If you're still not convinced of what I'm saying, I recommend you navigate (how's that for a techie word?) to www.810whb.com/shows/default.asp?id=btl. That will get you to a 35-minute interview Green did with KC radio station WHB on Friday.
During that interview Green openly talks of his relationship with Cameron and his talks with the Dolphins in recent months. He says he has convinced Carl Peterson to at least talk to the Dolphins this week after the sides stopped talking during the draft. The sides are talking about trading Green for a sixth round draft pick.
And he says Miami is the best fit for him.
"I want to be able to finish my career as a starter in a manner I've earned," Green said.
The reason Miami is such a good fit for him? He's been promised the starting job.
And that means Culpepper, despite his improving health, despite his personal optimism, despite all the signs things are looking up, will be either released or traded when Green comes on board. Now I'm not saying this is what the Dolphins should do. I'm saying this is what they're going to do. Please understand that.
One reason they will do this is the Dolphins don't believe Culpepper and Green can co-exist or want to on the same team. Another reason is Culpepper probably can't beat out Green based on his limited knowledge and practically no experience with the offense.
The fact is, ladies and germs, is if you put the pieces together, Miami's quarterback situation has been decided regardless of how long it takes to get Green to Miami. And now that Green has gone on something of a public relations offensive in Kansas City, I think that might be sooner rather than later.
Your thoughts?
In case you're wondering, it will be Trent Green.
Yes, this takes into account the fact Daunte Culpepper is happy and hopeful because he is feeling no pain in his twice surgically repaired right knee and expects to test it in the Dolphins' next minicamp June 8-10.
Yes, this takes into account the fact rookie John Beck showed an outstanding arm in minicamp practices today.
But mostly it takes into account the facts. And these are the truths as I know them.
Trent Green has a contract in place with the Dolphins. He has been told he can come to Miami and be the starter for one or two years, depending on how he holds up. His quarterback coach in KC (Terry Shea) is now Miami's QB coach. His QB coach in Washington years ago (Cam Cameron) is now Miami's head coach. And the offense the Dolphins are going to run this year?
Green knows it better than several of Miami's offensive coaches.
If you're still not convinced of what I'm saying, I recommend you navigate (how's that for a techie word?) to www.810whb.com/shows/default.asp?id=btl. That will get you to a 35-minute interview Green did with KC radio station WHB on Friday.
During that interview Green openly talks of his relationship with Cameron and his talks with the Dolphins in recent months. He says he has convinced Carl Peterson to at least talk to the Dolphins this week after the sides stopped talking during the draft. The sides are talking about trading Green for a sixth round draft pick.
And he says Miami is the best fit for him.
"I want to be able to finish my career as a starter in a manner I've earned," Green said.
The reason Miami is such a good fit for him? He's been promised the starting job.
And that means Culpepper, despite his improving health, despite his personal optimism, despite all the signs things are looking up, will be either released or traded when Green comes on board. Now I'm not saying this is what the Dolphins should do. I'm saying this is what they're going to do. Please understand that.
One reason they will do this is the Dolphins don't believe Culpepper and Green can co-exist or want to on the same team. Another reason is Culpepper probably can't beat out Green based on his limited knowledge and practically no experience with the offense.
The fact is, ladies and germs, is if you put the pieces together, Miami's quarterback situation has been decided regardless of how long it takes to get Green to Miami. And now that Green has gone on something of a public relations offensive in Kansas City, I think that might be sooner rather than later.
Your thoughts?
posted by Armando Salguero at 9:17 PM
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102 Comments:
You're totally right, and I understand why you have to clarify when you're saying and why. I've been saying this for a while now, and people always tell me that we need to give Pep another chance. I've been one of his biggest supporters, and I'd love to see him succeed, especially in Miami. But the reality is that Green is inevitably going to be a Dolphin, and that means Lemon and Beck will fill out the position.
It's a shame, and I hope Culpepper regains his form elsewhere.
Good stuff as always, Armando. Daunte will eventually resurrect his football career. It just won't be in Miami. Trent will be a better tutor for John Beck, anyways. Trent is a "pro's pro" and a very unselfish man. John is really going to benefit from being around Trent.
I wonder if we can get anything for Daunte. They should keep him through traning camp to increase his trade value. Especially if the knee is doing well
hello green, cant wait beck good BYE culpepper
I don't think that Green is the answer he is old have injury problems. The fit might look good, however I believed that Culpepper will be ready to play at his level by training camp and will be alot faster than Green in terms of escapability and strenght will be a waste for Miami to let him go.
really don't care which qb it is more interested in ricky williams what's up with him coming back??
Sounds logical Armando, but so was Brady Quinn coming to Miami, and we saw how that turned out. Cam and Randy have not pulled trigger on Green yet "WHY NOT". Why is Green the only one making noise about the trade??? I think they e Culpepper getting healthy is making them have 2nd thoughts of making a mistake. Fact Green is 37 and health with him is also a ????. The real question to me is why the trade has not been made yet...you want logical if Miami really wanted Green they would have given up a 4th that's my opinion.
The reason they haven't made the trade is that KC has been asking for too much and has NO LEVERAGE.
The 4th rounder? They would have lost a guy that projects as our future nose tackle (as early as next year). You don't give that up for a guy who is a lock to get released.
They want him, but this group is smart enough to know his price.
I'm mixed on this. Part of me wants to see Culpepper given a chance to show what he's got left. Is he able to move in the pocket ? If so, why would you get rid of him ? yes, I know he's not the smartest cookie in the bunch but he's got the big arm to go downfield, isn't that what Mueller wants, quick scoring offense ? The other part see's Green as a better mentor to the future, Beck. A guy who can help him learn what it takes to be a Qb in the NFL and someone who can show him how to play without being a running QB. As for a trade of Culpepper, to who and for what ? I just don't see a trade partner out there.
*Denny
Response to whoever wrote the last comment:
-Getting brady quinn was only logical to the fans, not to the dolphins organization, who wanted ginn and beck (speed and accuracy)...i was one of those at the draft party booing when we didnt get quinn but after doing a little research on these players that we got I can really understand why we got them...and aldo cuz quinn is not as good as advertised
- i THINK we are not really talking about the trent trade because that's one less distraction...everyone should be focused on training camp and getting better...or at least thats what the coaches believe in
- we did not give up a 4th round pick cuz we KNOW we can get him for a loooot less...maybe even for free(if KC releases him)
Why would you buy a shirt for $20 if you know it's gonna be $5 next week?
This doesn't make any sense to me. I understand the fact that no one is really sure about Daunte. I understand that we need a verteran backup just to be sure. But what is the upside to a 37 year old qb? That he can mentor a rookie so we can rest our hopes in 2 years on a draft pick no one knows about? We are going to get rid of Daunte just because Green and Culpepper could not coexist? We've seen what Green can do. If Manning didnt throw 49 TD's Culpepper would have been the league MVP. That's upside! Give the guy a chance. He was screwed by Saban. Why a 37 year old qb to teach a rookie? Isn't that coaches are for? Think about it. This team has weapons. Brown, Chambers, L. Booker, possibly Ricky Williams, and now a blur at WR named Ginn.... Trent Green will navigate this offense. Culpepper can be another weapon. A very dangerous one. Get Both, get rid of Lemon, and let them compete.
I sure hope this is not true.
If Armando is right this time, after just listening to Mr. Green, I got to say this guy comes off as a flaming primadonna. Why would the Dolphins want to trade for a guy who demands to be a starter? What ever happened to Cam's words about everyone having to earn it? I really can't freakin' believe the doublestandards going on here and the really dirty way it seems the new management is dealing with Daunte. Like JTaylor said the other night, Daunte has been working his butt off everyday to come back, is already more than 90 percent and bound for 100 percent and the Dolphins want to trade for an aging primadonna?!?
Cam has got to drop his wierd sentiment for Green and be a principled coach. I would be fine if Green came in here with an unselfish mind of entering in a competition with Daunte and backing him up if he loses it, but it sounds like this guy would be the problem in the locker room and Not Daunte.
Dolphins should just tell Green to stay in Kansas City.
It is a good idea Chris...but I think Trent and Daunte have too much pride in themselves to be a backup QB (considering they are both healthy)
Look at Jake Plummer...he could have gone somewhere else, but he wouldnt be guaranteed to start. he prefered to retire than to go back to the beginning of his career, as a backup
My only concern is that Cameron is already being a hypocrit, just like Wanny was. Say one thing and do another. He made such a big deal about telling us how he's been taught to "never" give a job to a player, let him earn it. If that is the case why not raise the competition level and let Daunte, Trent Green, Cleo Lemon, and Beck battle it out and may the best player win. It appears that he has already promised Green the starting job and is just making sure Green wins the job by getting rid of his greatest competition!!!!
Armando..I agree with Chris (he beat me to the punch)...what's up with all this "mentoring" stuff?"... ..isn't that why we pay position coaches handsomely?
Something else bugs me...aside from the fact that cam has a losing record as a head coach, he's put his foot in his mouth several times, including the infamous Ginn family/returner stuff. And as already mentioned, "assuring/guaranteeing Trent green a starting spot goes against previous statements...I think Cam
is another of those position coach 1-2 year wonders, blessed with great talent who matriculate upward as 'reward". We all hope he succeeds, of course, but so far, he's done little (other than clearing a house that needed cleaning)to inspire my confidence.
well sed jed..lol..i cant believe trent freakin green...screw that , we gotta try c pepp instead of ol timer who does nothing for our future..if c pepp cant go then u spent a high 2nd pick on a guy over quinn so why not start the future now !!!!!! i dont want that arrogant clown who cant throw past 50 yards .
The last time we saw Trent Green on the field he threw for 107 yards and two ints in leading his team to 8 points in a playoff game. In his last regular season game he was responsible for three turnovers. In the game before that against the lowly Raiders he threw a pick and only had 148 yards passing. He looks to me like an old man who should have retired sometime sooner. Is this really an upgrade from Culpepper?
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I think its kind of funny. Daunte says he will be ready by next minicamp. Then Green says the deal is going down. Its race between Culpepper's health and Green's agent.
Trent - I need to get on the Dolphins before Culpepper gets healthy and they decide they don't need me.
Culpepper - I better get healthy soon so I can show them they don't need Trent Green.
Let me see if I can get this straight. They want to get rid of Culpepper....for nothing....because he MAY never have the mobility he once had. So they are going to get the slowest, oldest, least mobile qb they can find to replace him? I can see why they don't want Culpepper. I mean who wants a qb with unresolved health issues that may be on the downside of his carreer. Let's go get the 37 year qb with unresloved health issues who is deffinitely on the downside of his carreer. Now I don't think Culpepper is the answer but Green is a horrible decision. Did anyone but me see his last game? The playoff shellacking? 50 year old T.Green. How bad is it when I am yearning for the return of Gus Ferotte? Or hell even Scott Mitchell.......
for those of you dolphin fans that think you will get trent for nothing ,you are wrong!!King carl is one og the most stubborn gm's in the biz!! KC has the cap space to carry trent this year and carl will if he has to prove a point!! the dolphins haven't met their match until they deal with carl peterson!!! If the dolphins really want trent,they will pay!!if you don't believe me,just do a research check on king carl and you will feel me!!!
Last thought from my previous entry (the one that references Scott Mitchell lol). At least there is a chance Culpepper may return to form. Green is finished. I say save the draft pick they are going to give up for Green and hope that Culpepper becomes what he once was. I think Culpepper has way more upside. If the fins really feel like Beck is the answer then they must be planning on him taking over by next year no? So why waste time with Green. We aren't winning the Super Bowl next year but a healthy Culpepper gives us a chance to be a winner.
K.Guerard Ott Canada
Culpepper - 137 TD, 82 INT, 37 Fumbles (13 lost), 30 Rush TDs. 249 sacks in 85 games.
Green - 157 TD, 101 INT, 13 Fumbles (5 lost) , 6 Rush TD. 246 sacks in 112 games.
When you look at everything Green is only marginally better and I don't think its enough to make up for his age. TD:INT ration is about the same. Culpepper averages almost 3 sacks a game while Green is a little over 2. Yeah Culpepper has more fumbles but being younger gives him the edge over green. They are both medical risks. Trent green's head is a scrambled egg and Daunte has a bad wheel.
I rather go with the younger guy.
Who starts is Green is knocked out with a concussion week 1 by Shaun Taylor?
Cleo?
Beck?
Gimme a break.
The Dolphins would be making a mistake by trading for Green. I think he will be released by KC. If that's the case I would bring him in. I just wouldn't give up a draft pick for him - we have see how that's worked out in the past. In addition - I wouldn't be promising anyone a starting job before training camp; make them earn it. I would prefer a healthy Culpepper over Green any day.
If Trent Green comes in and Daunte is released then I hope John Beck is ready to start cos I don't see him having to wait long before Green gets his head scrambled. I'r really like to see Daunte back to what he was hopefully here but if he goes then I wish him all the best, wonder if Scott Linehan in St louis is keeping his eye on this situation.
Be careful what you wish for. Green is old and a hit away from another concussion. I think it's a bad move, and me personalli I wouldn't do it. Not even for a 6th round pick.
I would ride DC, and see what he has...If he can't do it, I am perfectly fie with Beck starting...
Knowing the Dolphin's luck, I predict the following for the 2007 season:
Rookie of the Year: Brady Quinn
Comback player of the year: ex-Dolphin Daunte Culpepper
NFC MVP: Drew Brees
David in Orlando
Coach Cameron has said that whoever wants to be the next starting QB has to compete for the job and win it. It's not logical to eliminate the only competition Green will have for the spot, before he gets here. Right now the Dolphins will not find a place to send Daunte, so give him the chance to at least compete for the job.
FolkS: I am encouraged that what Armando writes won't be true, given the results of Armando's confident prediction that Miami would draft -- even trade up to draft -- Brady Quinn. Armando believed that till the very end.
In other words, this is a good sign that Daunte will be the starting QB in September for the Dolphins.
You guys might as well accept the fact that green is coming and culpepper will be gone. It is very disappointing not to get to see if Daunte can help us out, but Cam and Randy have made it pretty clear what direction they are headed.
Armando, bro, you should have been a detective the way you've put this thing together. Either that or the Dolphins don't do a good job of keeping their plans secret.
it is really a bad choice to go with green his old and won't even finish the season specially with a offensive line that could not protect him
I jus hate green over culpepper or beck
I think if culpepper gets the chance he'll kick greens ass
I certainly hope Miami has not promised a starting job to Trent Green. I have no problem bringing Green in, that is once KC cuts him or they take the 6th or 7th round pick. If King Carl wants to swallow his 9.1 million dollar cap hit, let him. The league is about competition. Let Green and Culpepper compete and the loser be cut or traded. Green would have an advantage because of his knowledge of the offense, but still let it play out on the field.
Its funny to me how everyone hangs on Armando's wrod about this when he has shown his inside info to be flawed. Everyone is going by what he said that Trent green said that Cameron said. What kind of crap journalism is that. They all said Randy would cave before or during the draft...he didn't. So far Nick Saban is the only person who has caved on a pick when he didn't have to: Joey Harrington before he got released to "get him into camp." So far all I heard RM say is we'll wait, we'll see...so why can't we wait and see rather than speculate? CC said biggest mistake is promising someone the QB spot.
Sam
Armando, given we were able to fill some key needs with the draft, we should keep all of our picks in the future. If Green wants to play here, let KC cut him. We should not pay anything for him, if KC wants to carry his 7M salary, good for them. We can either start with Daunte, or go straight to Beck. He is not your typical rookie. He is already 26, how long do you want to wait on the guy. Beck will have weapons and some solid RB's. If we dont have a great season, wew will be picking high again and can add more value with ALL of our picks. Regarding Daunte, play him in preseaon and see if we cant pick up a mid rd draft pick. The days of building the team with aging cast aways at the expense of draft picks and youth, have crippled our team. Go Beck. I applaud Cam and Randy for their draft plan execution.Any thoughts form the Dolphin Nation?
Some of the DolphinNation agrees with you: RE-last post.
Sam
Good. Get Green, trade Daunte(whatever it takes) and get things going. Even if Daunte's 110% healthy, he's not the best QB to play in this offense. So, get the QBs in here that DO fit the offense, and move on from there.
Green, Lemon, Beck........sounds like the best we've had in many years!
check this out.... make trent green our offensive coordinator if he's so sharp and well versed with the camenator's plan.
david martin is gonna blow up big time mark my words a la gates.
if they don't bring back ricky they are elitest idiots.
ginn will be co-rookie of the year with lorenzo "flash" booker (the newest d-wade)
keep daunte until he is proven less than beck.
beck will be really really good, maybe even great!!
king samson is the new age of our o-line and is so stinkin nasty he's scary. I freakin love this guy.
love all the free agent rookies.
our best draft this decade!!
we are really really needy in the secondary and is our weekest link on the team and was/is not well enough addressed YET- but do something quick cam.
we have the top 2 or 3 best front sevens in all the nfl.
we must make our field goals and eliminate the dreaded dropped pass which was our single most determining factor in the outcome of our games last year along with the worst offensive scheme in the league MALARKEY.
You know, I'm tired of the lies that are coming from this regime. At the beginning, they said to the public that the QB position was an open competition and behind closed doors they give the job to Green. Which one is it? Even though it would be a P.R. nightmare, why don't Cam and Mueller tell the truth: that they don't believe D.C. is smart enough to play QB for them. Doesn't that statement sound awfully familiar to the opinion of football exec. and coaches ,through the years, when regarding "Black QB's". It sound like we still have some exec. and coaches that can't shake those thoughts. Inspite of the sucess of Black QB's, it seems they still have more trust in the color of the QB (based on the old way of thinking) rather than the talent.
Maybe I'm over-reacting but I think not. Go back to the statements made early in one of Cam's first press conferences regarding the requirements of a QB and notice his emphasis on thinking for position. Then a couple of question later he would not even adknowledge the incumbent QB: D.C.! Why is that? He has only been a three time probowler is this league. Can he not play now when healthy? Considering his sucess in the league , how can you just boot him out without first seeing him fail. I think these are questions that should be answered by this regime.
How about it Armando? You represent the public as well as the fan. Can you get a answer for us?
A big second to the good statement by "R. Howard."
I wonder if Daunte where white, given his background, at one time Daunte was considered an equal to Peyton Manning by many, given Daunte's proven success, why has he not gotten the respect he deserves from the Dolphin management? Is this just a petty thing about him being a Saban guy? I think its because Daunte is black. Lord knows that if it was Trent "Cam's baby" Green in the same situation you'd have a much different attitude
Sam is full of it. I listened to the Green interview and think Armando has this thing nailed.
Mr. Green says opportunity to play, a chance to get a job nobody says to him the QB job was promise to him. Where does he say that at? Why do reporters write things that are not accurate?
Trent is to fragile to be playing football. On top of the fact he'll get knocked out with the first hit becuase of his previous big concusion, he's also an old fart! I rather take my chances with a 95% Culpepper than with an over rated Trent. Mueller and Cameron have way to much of a hardon for Trent and it's become more of a game to them now. They're so desprate to win that they've forgotten that they're fighting for someone who isn't worth it. Just like Cameron said at his hiring speech. Work with what you got and get the full potential from everyone out on the field.
What bothers me about this mess isn't so much the decisions that Cameron's making (although the Brady Quinn one is a head scratcher) but that a guy who's supposedly so honest and up front seems to have no problem leaving people hanging about what's going to happen to them. Mare was basically kept in the dark about his future until he was traded, and it appears that Culpepper is being given the silent treatment as well. The Dolphins didn't bother to talk to Donnie Jones before he got a contract offer from the Rams. And as recently as a month ago, Cameron hadn't bothered to talk to Ricky Williams. Conversely, they led many people to believe they were hot and heavy after Quinn (certainly Quinn himself thought so based on their pre-draft contacts) before ignoring him when he unexpectedly becomes available.
I understand that some players are cut and others are not, and some are drafted and others are not, and that's just business. But even if you're cutting a guy, you can show him some respect by at least keeping him in the loop. To me, Cameron has shown a distinct lack of class since he took over as coach.
i think green is not a dolphin yet because they refuse to give up anything for him! and they are right for doing so,but i think they are also myopic in their vision for not pursuing anyone else either!
I don't know if I agree with this Armando... If we have the cap room why not keep both Green and Culpepper. Who cares about this locker room distraction crap. Throw all the QBs in the ring and see who wins, if the loser can't handle sitting THEN trade him.
This way if Daunte does come back healthy and proves to be the 2004 version we don't give him to another team before we find out.
This could even turn out good for Beck because both of these two guys have been to pro bowls and he could learn from both of their styles. The locker room distraction thing bugs me to no end. Get rid of the cry babies. I hope Cameron is not going to be one of these "players" coaches. Okay maybe not a Saban either but not the wishy washy Wanny, please!
In other words give them all a shot and see who shakes out. If the guy who gets beat out can't handle it, bye bye... Also if we can get Culpepper on the field his value in trade will go up tremendously.
As a Nebraksa fan, I have followed Daunte Culpepper's career since his Central Florida club put the scare into Big Red. It is apparent that some of the posters haven't paid much attention.
Although I think that TG is a better fit than DC, I think Peterson is just stubborn enough to pay Green his $7 mil if only to keep him out of a Dolphins' uniform.
Man, I knew it was only a matter of time before a couple of idiots would pull out the "race card." If Daunte Culpepper gets cut from the Dolphins it won't be because of the color of his skin. Stop being stupid.
From a KC fan's perspective, good luck with Tr-INT. He is a class guy, but you don't win NFL games with class. He has never been more than a solid quarterback, and those days have passed. You think Daunte fumbles, wait until you see Tr-INT play. I don't think he has learned at this point of his career that you can throw a ball away. He will try to scramble with his concrete shoes on, and get hit when all he needs to do is throw a ball out of bounds. Good luck Fins fans.
Thats a nice piece of reporting, the Trent Green "I am a starter" speech on KC radio. Though, I wonder if you are, Again, over-dramatizing and stretching statements, Armando? Clearly, Trent Green is saying this, but can we have confirmation that the Dolphins still think that way before you pronounce it as fact? Its seems to me the Dolphins management is pretty fluid with their decisions, could be they have taken a step away from making Green the starter as a matter of course. You could be right, but you could be wrong, so here's to investigating whether you are wrong. What you say?
"The Dolphins clearly hope Beck can be out there as their starter sometime next season.."
-- Armando Salguero, today's Herald
Really, Armando? That would seem to be a huge assumption stated as fact.
I believe Culpepper is not even in the mix for the Miami starting job. If the knee looks good, and he said he's virtually pain free running straight - NOT pain free, you will see trade talks with the Raiders. Trent Green could be a good fit for six to eight games, but Beck needs to be inserted when he's ready and got a solid command of the offense. We don't need a 37 or 38 year old starting QB with a concussion problem. He final starts of the season last year was dismal.
The Raiders trade for Culpepper?
Hello! But I don't think they need CPepp after recently adding Jamarcus Russell and Josh McCown.
Very simple. Camerons offense requires quick thinking and accuracy over mobility and size. Daunte is a special quarterback when he can use his mobility in the pocket, but this system requires a thinker at the position. Trent Green and hopefully John beck are better suited for this. I don't think it is a personal slam against CPep just not the best fit for his talents.
If Green is better than many of our actual coaches (in terms of mastering the offensive system), hire him as offensive assistant, in order to save some salary cap and stop all the wind storm over the QB position.
Daunte has no trade value unless he can exhibit something on film first.
Damon Huard threw 12 TDs and had only pick so if Trent Green can't beat out Jay Fiedler's back-up then his time has passed.
So that means you will have 4 qb in camp and 3 who will make the team. Go Cleo Lemon
Hey J, please engage your mind. First, It is obvious the team hopes Beck is the starter next year. That would mean he's better than the other guys, and it would mean CamRan were right to pick him which is good for their job security.
Second, I've been told as much moe-moe. That's why it's in the paper. UGGHHH!!!
Told by whom, Armandito?
That would seem to go, again, against the grain of all Cam's public statements. And against logic, given that Green and/or Culpepper are veteran pro bowl qb's. And given that Cam prefers to bring along QBs slowly, why would they want to throw Beck into the fire in his first season? That would be foolish and unnecessary. Back up your big assumptions with names to your sources. If its the same ballboy who told you the Dolphins are going to draft Quinn, well, we know about that.
John Beck was drafted in round 2, yes. That does not mean he has been "anointed" as QB. At this point, the only anointed ones in Dolphinland are Jason Taylor, ZAch Thomas and perhaps Joey Porter.
You are consistently PREMATURE with your analysis and opinions. I'd gather thats probably a trend throughout your life.
Speaking of irresponsible screed, your article today, in which you jab at Ricky and Booker, to what purpose does it serve to demean two good football players and two good people? Both are Miami Dolphins, couldn't you please treat them with a little more respect?
Armando, I'm confused, baby. Who is starting QB next year, Green or Beck??
First you said Green, now you say Beck..
Don't get Green. He is washed up. He is one hit away from being a vegetable. Start with C-Pep and transition to Green. Hire Trent Green as an assistant as was previously mentioned.
People, this season is this season in my view -- 2007. Next season is 2008.
Green this year. Beck, the Dolphins hope, next year.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
I disagree. First you have to look at Green and Pep as totally different situations. As to Green, everything we have heard has come from Green or his agent. We have heard nothing from the Phin camp there. Second Cam has openly stated that the QB starting position would have to be earns and not given. To jet Green and just give him the starting position then that would go against everything that Cam has been preaching as well as he would loose the respect a little from his players. As he flat out lied to them. I don’t think he will do that. So far Cam as been very methodical in his approach and has been constant. There are no signs that he would go a different rout. And third I think the missing ingredient that you all are missing is Cleo Lemons. For better or worse Cam has been praising this man to no end. I think all this Green talk is two things one the fans and media desire to have a franchise QB. And two I just have not scene a real commitment to Green from the Phin Camp. It’s almost as a love affair stalker where one side does not seem interested. I may be a little wrong here but I got a feeling that Cam is very satisfied in seeing if Pep can come back and if not then Cleo till Beck is ready.
Some-one siad let it play out on the field, Amen to that.. I can see positives to both, Culpepper and Green. BUT, I also see negatives with both players. Let it be a real competition, and the best man will step forward, my money is on BECK
I'm sick and tired of comments about Trent Green. He's not here yet as a Miami Dolphin. So stop talking about him. No one on the Dolphin's staff is talking about Trent Green. They're moving on. So should we as fans and the media. Stop predicting what might not happen and let's wait it out to see what happens. My opinion, We don't need Trent Green.
Man, why is evrybody so concerned about Trent Green's age? Before he had the concussion he was playing at a very high level, and lot's of NFL QB's have played up to 40 and beyond. He does not have a history of any other injuries, and actually has less wear and tear than say a Marino, Elway or Montana did at his age as he was not a starter his entire career (not to compare his ability to those guys, but he has been a Pro Bowler). If Cam thinks he's still in good shape, I'll go with that.
You Miami fans are homers. There is only one QB in the NFL who has had better numbers than Trent over the last five years. Payton. That is it. You guys are crying about giving up a pick for him. Please if the raiders can get a 4th for Randy Moss who doesn't even play even though he is on the field you can give up a pick for a guy who is a smart, classy, and competative QB. You are talking bad about him now but when he throws that first TD you will be cheering him and will have forgotten about all this whinning you are doing now.
TRENT GREEN WILL BE TRADED AND YOU WILL GIVE UP A PICK. Don't show your ingnorance by thinking KC will cut a starter for the fishes. You want him under that center, you need him him under center and I wish you would just say Thank You. "Jack Nicholson"
I really HATE when people use the race card unnecessarily. Just because some issue features a black and white doesn't mean it's a race issue. A race issue would be having 53 white guys on your team and NO blacks. Since that is NOT the case, you can take that race card and shove it deep up your &#*)!&#!. I'm a 100% white guy and I prefer Daunte Culpepper and I feel he can and will return to form. What you think of that???
Good article . . . but -- this Green trade is taking a long time to happen. And for two people like Cam and Mule, who CLEARLY are the type of people who know what they want and go out and get it, it doesn't seem to me that if they were DESPERATE for Green, that money or concessions to KC would be an issue at all. Personally, I think they are considering a few things: Green is older; Green suffered a MAJOR concussion, and is, therefore, PRONE to more; Daunte Culpepper is also a Pro Bowl QB who is getting his form back; We have the "QB of the future" in Beck; and we have experience in Lemon. Now, Green is more than likely gonna be a Dolphin in the near future. I'm just not sure that Daunte Culpepper won't be one too. There's enough upside to Culpepper and enough downside to Green to make the Dolphin's coach and GM re-think their risk/reward scenario.
To 100% White "Anonymous" person who posted at 2:53 am concerning the "race card" issue: I'm 100% Black . . . and you're 100% CORRECT in what you say! There's no place for all this race foolishness on this site. I don't think anyone's naive enough to think that racism doesn't exist. But money and success nearly ALWAYS trump race. No way is Dolphin management (or any other team for that matter) going to choose a purple guy over a green guy just because the purple guy is purple -- particular if the green guy can take them to a championship. Personally, I think Culpepper DESERVES to have a chance to be the starter for this team simply because 1) he's shown what he CAN do in this league, 2) he's put in a lot of work to get back to form, and 3) we wouldn't be questioning his abilities so intensely right now if he hadn't been rushed back into playing by the former regime. Having said that, I like Green too. But more as an insurance policy rather than as a guaranteed starter. There should definitely be competition for the job.
From a lifelong Viking fan: Culpepper sucks even when healthy. You're better off without him.
First who wants a QB that was benched and possible cut by a qb who could not start for us in the past unless our 1st and 2nd QB was hurt (Damon Huard)
Second someone wrote that TG does not have a history of injury but TG lost his first staring gig to Gus Ferotte well that was not because injury but because he got beat period then lost his job to Kurt Warner because he got hurt lost his job last year to the great Damon Huard because he was hurt. Please there is nothing left in TG carrer but to get hurt.
Third I agree with both sides of the issues with DC but the downside for DC is the same downside for TG and that is health issues if they where both healthy and niether are your QB of the future (Beck) why pay a 37 year old QB 9 million dollars if you think that is a good idea put down the crack pipe.
Forth If we don't do something about our offensive line neither DC or TG have a chance hopefully this year offensive line will be good enough so that we don't have to revamp again next year like we have done since Ricky Ran for 1800 yards.
fifth and final comment I don't know if L.Booker will be good in the NFL(even though I think he is very talented) getting Ricky back is a very vital part of the recipe because the most success we've had in the last two years was when we had brown and Ricky sharing the ball having two guys on a team that can start for almost anyone in the NFL it is hard to keep up with especially when there fresh and the defense is tired. It helps the o-line it helps the QB and it helps the defense by keeping them of the field.
thats my opinion
go Phinnes
All this talk about giving Daunte a second chance to prove himself after his injury is irritating. When are we going to stop making excuses for the guy and just call it for what it is? - this man can not read defenses and struggles making decisions. His last season in Minnesota, when he was healthy, was terrible. A lot has changed since the days he would just throw it up to Moss and Carter. It is not his legs, it's his decision making. Many of the good coaches in the NFL won't touch him because they know it to be true. Trent Green is not much better but is a step up. We should have never let go of Frerrote - our best post Marino QB (not including Huard).
To the guy dissing Daunte in the blog comment above: You simply do not know of what you speak.
Daunte Culpepper, before his injury, was probably the second best QB in the NFL after Peyton Manning. He was lethal. Teams were afraid. You could argue Moss had a lot to do with it, he helped, but that was not the whole story. What has Moss done since he left DCulppepper? Nothing. And he has no good injury excuse. Moss' excuse? He did not have a good QB in Oakland.
Daunte Culpepper is a talented football player. If he is 100 percent soon, as he says he will be, the Dolphins would be extremely lucky to count him as their own. As for questions about his smarts and ability to play in the Cam system: football isn't rocket science, if he can be an elite QB in the Linehan offense he can do it for Cam.
Buddy, I want to believe you but I'm not buying it. How do you explain the sacks, the costly ints? Marino wasn't mobile but was nearly impossible to sack because he was quick with his decisions. Culpepper was embarrassing last season because he was incapable of getting rid of the ball and making smart decisions. Moss, Carter and a healthy running game helped Culpepper in his early years as did his health. All those things are gone now. Despite his recent bad year (which I think was still over 1000 receiving yds) Moss has proved he can play even without Culpepper. He will bounce back. I don't think Culpepper will.
Bud, obviously, last year, when Daunte was playing at about 75-80 percent of his full speed, he was not effective. In addition, Miami's offensive line was horrible in pass protection -- which led to LJ Shelton moving to Right Guard, for example.
That said, last year and this year are not the same of course. Obviously, if Daunte is not healthy he will not return to his prior form. I am betting he is very much about to return to good health. He will never be what he was, but he will be in good enough form. Certainly, as you say, Marino and a Trent Green are also not the most mobile in the world. As for Daunte not having a quick arm, bud, Daunte has one of the best passing arms this game has ever seen. As for making decisions, the man knows how to play. You don't get the numbers he got by making bad decisions. Not everyone can rack up nearly 50 TDs, I don;t care who you got around them. The QB is element number one in any offense's success.
This situation sucks for Daunte. Daunte, if you read this, keep going forward and with your head up! You are a great QB and you will be a starter somewhere. Maybe New England or Minesota.
I had the "pleasure"? of watching C-pepper in Minnesota for 5 years. He is Waaay overrated! Moss made Culpepper. Don't tell me the year without Moss was a fluke. He still had a great offensive line and a decent running game but if his primary receiver was not more than 2 feet from the DB, he had a hard time going through his progressions. Most often he just ran around the backfield looking indecisive and either overthrowing his receivers, throwing INTs, getting sacked or running for his life. Why do you think he got injured?
So spare me the "Culpepper has more upside" line. I don't think he's smart enough to pick up Cam's offense in one camp. Green does have injury risk associated, but he'll know where to go with the ball.
Besides, with his knowledge of this offense, Green will be a better tutor to Beck than Culpepper. About the only thing Daunte can teach him is to write a letter to the media airing out the team's dirty laundry. He did it in MN and again in Miami.
The Fins should work on getting the OL up to speed to protect him and pound defenses with Brown and Ricky. I've no doubt that's the plan anyway.
If Moss "made" Culpepper, why does Moss suck so much without him? He had about 550 yards receiving last year. Chambers, Booker, Welker and McMichael all had more yards last year. If Moss is the reason Culpepper had one of the best season's ever by a quarterback in 2004, how come Moss can't "make" Andrew Walter?
I really don't give a s*** who our QB will be this season - all of them will struggle.
Cpep will need to get back in Footballshape after two years out and probably will be killed before that happens.
If we get Green or should we better say Gray we will have a nice backup thats what he is with 37 - ok maybe Ginn will be open downfield every play - but Gray won't hit him - for sure!!!
Beck hey he is a rookie and we are not the Steelers with a system in use for ages when he got here.
I hope they will get Colt Brennan in the next draft and then light up the sky!!!!
All these reasons and explanations are logical. Fortunately or unfortunately (depends on how one feels about Green in aqua), the final decision seems more emotional than anything else. The football nation saw KC's GM state that they would rather keep Green than give him away. This whole situation has escalated well into to who is perceived as winning. I don't see KC caving in.
As of Monday, May 7th, Trent Green has indicated very publicly that he will not be playing at K.C. Whatever happens, it seems like a foregone conclusion that he will be starting in Miami this fall. Blame Saban on the Culpepper fiasco. Time to move on and groom our 2nd round pick QB as the future passer for the Phins.
To say the truth of the matter, don't think Beck is the "QB of the future." He is a nice, Christian man, but that only goes so far when you have pro defenses to deal with -- he will get creamed. His arm is alright, but the pro game is going to crush him. At best, this guy is a backup for 4-5 years then becomes an assistant coach somewhere.
Don't place any bets on this boy, he does not have the manliness to compete in the NFL. He lacks the fire to win, and win a lot.
trent green is closer to a retirement home than being a winning QB. dolphins should toss their sentimentality for him and just tell green to collect his big checks in k.c.
nothing is set until its set.
"I want to be able to finish my career as a starter in a manner I've earned," Green said.
He sounds like Bubby Brister in Denver a few years back. He hasn't "earned" a thing in a Dolphins uniform. He put up numbers over the years but did he win a Super Bowl? A Championship game? What if he stinks and gets the hook? Is he going to accept it like Kurt Warnerin Arizona or is he going to pout and talk about what he's "earned"?
Fellow Dolphans;
Long time (early 70's) Fins fan, now living in New England, here to comment:
-It seems to me that this new regime(Coaches,GM)has a plan, but may have tendencies toward secrecy, and a arrogance. The secrecy thing has already riled up the fan base, passing on Quinn...hell, every sports writer in the nation was fooled, flabbergasted by that one. The arrogance can be excused with results...look no further than Belichick and the Pats organization up here. But, these were big bold first time decisions by Mueller and Cameron....if they don't pan out, I say we make a big bold decision and get them out of there, along with the medical staff. Take their time, and don't be rushed like they were when Saban the disingenuous tool left in a hurry.
-Regarding QBs, I am afraid that in my mind getting TGreen does not make sense. The Fins are not contesting for the SBowl this year or next. The organization seems to be cleaning house. TGreen seems to expect to start, and does not want to compete.Certainly, do not give up a 2008 draft pick for him... Daunte was your guy, has been to 3 Pro Bowls...stay with him till your sure he can't compete. We just cant keep throwing away 2nd rounders(Jay Feeley, for craps sake). If the knee does not heal....
-I say give it to Lemon who can't be any worse than the revolving doors of Chuckleheads that have been behind center for years down there. Maybe even platoon Lemon and Beck.
-get Ricky back,give RBrown the ball, put the big Hawaiin in as fullback, and run a 3 back set till both teams tongues hang out of their face masks.
-we must improve the OL, the DBacks, LBs, and DL. The OL was "tweaked" in this draft, but we missed all the studs. Nothing done at LB, or DB, and our 4th rounder from Utah DL is not enough to spell the old men taking a pounding on the line. This team reminds me of the mid 80' Boston Celtics, that stuck too long with a veteran core (Bird, Parrish, McHale)...set them back so far, they are still trying to get close to the Glory days.
-I for one am looking to see Ted Ginn succeed, Brady Quinn fail, John Beck take the reins, and a 9-7 season improvement. Out of the playoffs, but at least we don't have to read about mass suicides if the opposite happens- Ginn snaps his other foot off in a training camp celebration, Beck becomes a crack head living in a South Beach basement, and Brady Quinn passes for 5K yards and runs for Governor of Ohio..
Go fins, lets all get real.
Dolphins, Chiefs and Green have already screwed this whole thing totally!!
First, there are the Chiefs telling Green to go and find a new place to play, basically telling everyone they are wanting to dump him. And then not dealing him.
Next, the Dolphins making a deal in which it is public knowledge that Green is the starter. That made his price tag go up automatically. Plus, it can't do anything but make it worse for Culpepper's already damaged confidence.
Now Green goes off and does this radio interview which he says he won't report to KC. If he doesn't, then the Chiefs don't have to pay him and it won't count against their cap. And the Chiefs have already reduced payroll a ton with cuts, retirements and trades. And that just gives Carl Peterson even more ability to wait this out.
So Green's radio comments, if anything, makes it even easier for the Chiefs to do nothing.
I don't care how well he knows the offense. The Dolphins are foolish if they think Green can come to Miami, not in football shape, and within a month build chemistry with guys he has not spent any time with. If Miami does wait out the Chiefs until late July or August and get him for free, the Chiefs know that they screwed up with an AFC rival total season preparations.
If Green is truly Cam's man, he best find that "happy place" in the new few months that will get the deal done.
And no way will they get Green for a 6th rounder. Once it became known the Fins wanted Green to be their starter, the price went up. No way a starting QB gets traded for, most likely, a future practice squad player, which is what nearly all 6th rounders end up being.
Its going to take a MINIMUM of a 4th round conditional draft pick to do this deal.
Too many screw ups on both sides of this fiasco. It's done nothing but make for fun sports-talk radio and column filler. And the problem for the Fins is that it looks like they need Green more than the Chiefs need to get rid of him (especially if he doesn't report and doesn't count against the cap at all!).
Keep screwing aroun and the 2007 Dolphins season could be doomed before it even starts.
First of all on something off topic... I have no clue what the fins are thinking with regards to Ricky... cleaning out his locker??? especially when he will play for the league minimum.. come on!!
As far as Green... I dont want him!! Give Culpepper the chance he was never given.. I really think that Culpepper at 100% can be competitive in this league.. Green is 37 and coming off a MAJOR concusion.. I just think whats the point?? Why not keep culpeper, especially when he is just starting to get healthy!
this has disaster written all over it. Just handing a quarterback with a severe concussion not too long ago the job? Come on it should be a battle between Trent and Daunte for the starting job. The best player should play, not the one who knows cameron the best. So far that's been Cam's gameplan with this and the draft, and his gameplan isn't going to last long in this league running the show. So what happens when Trent Green goes out in week 6 and his season is done? Cam's excuse for dropping the next 5 games will be we had to start a rookie qb? No sir, you had a chance to have two experienced qb's compete, but rather you handed it to your buddy. I really hope i'm wrong, but i think i'm wrong about that.
Green and Culpepper both have the same amount of question marks. Green is 37, and Daunte is 30. Daunte is already on the roster. The Fins would have to give up a draft pick in order to get Green any time soon. Keep Daunte. It's that simple.
HELLOOOOO, TRENT GREEN! GOOOODBYEEE Dante Culpepper! I am looking forward to Trent coming to Miami! His knowledge of the Offense should make our offense productive! Green, will be an outstanding teacher an mentor for Beck and Lemon as they learn the offense. And between the draft and the Free agency signee's can we maybe actually say we might finally have a Fast Deep Route Runner. Don't get me wrong I like Chambers, but he just doesnt belong on the outside and he can't catch a cleanly thrown ball that hits him center mass in the hands.
Personally i'm really forward to seeing our defense in action this Season. With the DL: Taylor, Traylor, Holliday, and Roth (possibly getting the starting nod on the other side as DE) and then w/the LB Corp of : Crowder, Thomas, and Porter... those FRONT 7 are going to be a SACK ATTACK on opposing QB's. And with the pickup of some Defensive backs that are at 6'0" to 6'2"...much better then what he had at 5'8"-5'10". Only question is will they turn around an look for the Football, or just run into the receiver like so many of our DB's have in the past and give our opponents a big yardage pentality for Pass Interference.
D.Turner
Charleston, SC Phins Fan
Randy Moss, playing in Minnasota is what made Culpepper seem so good those first few years that he had those great numbers. After Moss, left Minn. Culpepper's numbers went right into the toilet.
D. Taylor you should be flushed and dumped for your ignorant comments.
excuse me taylors of the world,
d. turner should be flushed, dumped and buried
The Problem is that Green is not wanted in KC anymore. Why? Because he got outplayed by a certain former dolphin named huard. If Huard couldn't win here why get Green??????????????
All those who want Green if he comes. which I hope he does not but if he does just remember you wanted him just like you wanted culpepper last year.For all you culpepper haters here are some numbers
Culpepper's Career Statistics
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
1999 MIN 1 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0
2000 MIN 16 297 474 62.7 3937 8.3 33 78 16 98.0
2001 MIN 11 235 366 64.2 2612 7.1 14 57 13 83.3
2002 MIN 16 333 549 60.7 3853 7.0 18 61 23 75.3
2003 MIN 14 295 454 65.0 3479 7.7 25 59 11 96.4
2004 MIN 16 379 548 69.2 4717 8.6 39 82 11 110.9
2005 MIN 7 139 216 64.4 1564 7.2 6 68 12 72.0
2006 MIA 4 81 134 60.4 929 6.9 2 52 3 77.0
Career 85 1759 2741 64.2 21091 7.7 137 82 89 90.8
Greens Career Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
1997 WAS 1 0 1 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 0 39.6
1998 WAS 15 278 509 54.6 3441 6.8 23 75 11 81.8
2000 STL 8 145 240 60.4 2063 8.6 16 64 5 101.8
2001 KAN 16 296 523 56.6 3783 7.2 17 67 24 71.1
2002 KAN 16 287 470 61.1 3690 7.9 26 99 13 92.6
2003 KAN 16 330 523 63.1 4039 7.7 24 67 12 92.6
2004 KAN 16 369 556 66.4 4591 8.3 27 70 17 95.2
2005 KAN 16 317 507 62.5 4014 7.9 17 60 10 90.1
2006 KAN 8 121 198 61.1 1342 6.8 7 39 9 74.1
Career 112 2143 3527 60.8 26963 7.6 157 99 101 87.5
Not much different people and actually culpepper qb rating is higher even with those two awful years and for the randy moss lovers
yes randy moss was an important part of his success but he has not been able to make any other qb look as good as culpepper and he had 4 chances(Gannon, Collins, Brooks, the guy after Brooks)and that last year that culpepper was in Minn. it was not only Randy Moss gone but he was also missing he's Pro bowl center(Birk)and he had no recievers (come on people not everyone can be tom brady) and I'm not even argueing because I love DC or hate TG either one to me has the same risk factor behind it but the few differences are DC 31 TG 37 that is 6 years for you math majors dude TG is one hit away from doing the Joe Montana and Culpepper is at least younger and is at least willing to compete and not asking to be given anything and was at our mini camp while TG was changing his "depends"
the Knee injury that Culpepper suffered usually takes two years to return full motion from and that speedy wide reciever everyone is talking about you think the TG can get him the ball if you do you are crazy. the man can't throw over 30-40 yards thats why tony Gonzalez has been the leading reciever in KC for years now.
point and fact is that TG is not a special player and is way past his prime. but culpepper was a special player and has the upside to still be one or at least until our future QB can take over and that is only if the great "cam" is right
about Beck.
All you begging for TG were probably the ones going crazy talking super bowl when we got culpepper and now your bashing him
and you will be doing the same when Green gets hurt(Probably in a pre-season game) and you will get just what you wanted the coaches trying different scenerios with lemon and beck and we will be right were we were last year.
Personally, I didnt want Culpepper to start with when he came to Miami to begin with. Nick Saban made one dumbest Moves when he failed to sign Drew Breez. Saban made the comment that Drew wasn't good enough to play for Miami, but yet he was good enough to play for N.O. and lead the NFL in Total Passing Yards and finish 3rd in the NFL for Passing TD's. So, I say Bye Bye Culpepper, and welcome the future John Beck.
This comment has been removed by the author.
I think the argument has less to do with Daunte's knee and more to do with his brain. Reading defenses and quick decision making are not his strong suit. His game relies on athleticism. The knee injury exposed his weakness.
You don't understand how stubborn Carl Peterson is. Trent Green will not be released.
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