The real importance of the Chris Chambers trade
You will be reading plenty of opinions about the Chris Chambers trade in the next day or so. If you care about mine, which is a fair assumption since you're on my blog, I am ambivalent about the move.
Why, you scream? How is this possible? Where's your passion about what it means for Ted Ginn Jr. and Derek Hagan? What are your thoughts about whether it means the Dolphins have given up on this season?
Who cares?
I don't give a hoot about what it means for Ted Ginn Jr. and Derek Hagan. And I don't really care about what it means about the rest of this season.
I only care about what happens with that second round pick. Nothing more.
If I am a Dolphins fan I am instantly hoping the Chargers lose the rest of their games. You see, the more the Chargers lose, the higher that pick will come in the second round.
More importantly, what are the Dolphins going to do with that second round pick? That's the main thing to care about. It doesn't matter if Miami goes offense or defense (they better not feed us the we're drafting a returner junk again). What really matters is that the Dolphins turn that pick into a starting-caliber player that contributes, like, soon.
One thing I found out when I suggested the Dolphins should explore trading Jason Taylor is that not many of you are confident Miami would do the right thing with a draft pick if such an exchange were made. Based on the history of the past five or so years, I kind of see your point -- which leads me to wonder whether the Dolphins can translate the pick they got in return for Chambers into good player.
I believe in Randy Mueller. He doesn't just sit around and wring his hands. He works to make things better. Does it always work out? No. This just in: The guy is not perfect. But at least he has a plan.
His plan going forward is obvious. He wants the Dolphins to become a second-level offense while adding playmakers to the defense, which it sorely needs as evidenced by the current third-down efficiency rate.
Mueller is tired of a popgun offense that gains yards in 4, 5, 6-yard clips when it's going really good. He wants an offense that gets to and beyond the secondary with some sort of consistency. He wants players that deliver 30, 40, 50-yard plays. That's attacking the second level.
On defense, he badly needs a shutdown cornerback. The Dolphins don't have a corner that will come up with a turnover, much less an interception return for a touchdown. Pat Surtain was that type of player. Sam Madison for a while was that. I remind you both those guys were second-round picks.
So don't get too caught up in what the trade means now. This season is toast, in case you haven't noticed. The importance of this trade, the meaning of this trade will be decided on draft day 2008. And hopefully the Dolphins will find an impact offensive or defensive player with San Diego's pick
Why, you scream? How is this possible? Where's your passion about what it means for Ted Ginn Jr. and Derek Hagan? What are your thoughts about whether it means the Dolphins have given up on this season?
Who cares?
I don't give a hoot about what it means for Ted Ginn Jr. and Derek Hagan. And I don't really care about what it means about the rest of this season.
I only care about what happens with that second round pick. Nothing more.
If I am a Dolphins fan I am instantly hoping the Chargers lose the rest of their games. You see, the more the Chargers lose, the higher that pick will come in the second round.
More importantly, what are the Dolphins going to do with that second round pick? That's the main thing to care about. It doesn't matter if Miami goes offense or defense (they better not feed us the we're drafting a returner junk again). What really matters is that the Dolphins turn that pick into a starting-caliber player that contributes, like, soon.
One thing I found out when I suggested the Dolphins should explore trading Jason Taylor is that not many of you are confident Miami would do the right thing with a draft pick if such an exchange were made. Based on the history of the past five or so years, I kind of see your point -- which leads me to wonder whether the Dolphins can translate the pick they got in return for Chambers into good player.
I believe in Randy Mueller. He doesn't just sit around and wring his hands. He works to make things better. Does it always work out? No. This just in: The guy is not perfect. But at least he has a plan.
His plan going forward is obvious. He wants the Dolphins to become a second-level offense while adding playmakers to the defense, which it sorely needs as evidenced by the current third-down efficiency rate.
Mueller is tired of a popgun offense that gains yards in 4, 5, 6-yard clips when it's going really good. He wants an offense that gets to and beyond the secondary with some sort of consistency. He wants players that deliver 30, 40, 50-yard plays. That's attacking the second level.
On defense, he badly needs a shutdown cornerback. The Dolphins don't have a corner that will come up with a turnover, much less an interception return for a touchdown. Pat Surtain was that type of player. Sam Madison for a while was that. I remind you both those guys were second-round picks.
So don't get too caught up in what the trade means now. This season is toast, in case you haven't noticed. The importance of this trade, the meaning of this trade will be decided on draft day 2008. And hopefully the Dolphins will find an impact offensive or defensive player with San Diego's pick
posted by Armando Salguero at 9:00 PM
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68 Comments:
I too care mostly about the pick but I am glad to see that -- whether they say so or not -- the front office is acting. And the action says "rebuilding," not, "one or two guys away."
Xavier Adibi?
Darius just got the boot too.
So does this mean Jason Allen is getting thrown into the fire and is actually getting his chance to "make or break" as Cameron said last week?
Armando,what's with the manlove for Mueller. He gave Porter $20 million guaranteed. He signed a 38-year-old nose tackle. He drafted Jason Allen. And have you noticed Booker? I sure haven't.
This will mean nothing if we keep drafting Jason Allens, Ted Ginns, Jamar Fletchers or Joe Averies.
Good deals or trades are when you get more on return based on what you previously had. All the Dolphins have right now is a POSSIBILITY to have a good deal, nothing more.
Wouldn't be wiser change Chambers for a younger proven player? I do not think this is a win-win negotiation, Chargers get a proven player and we get a selection that may be a new Jason Allen.
I have to applaud this move. I'm sad to see Chambers go (he would drop some passes, but made some incredible catches as well) but it's good to see a recognition of the problems with the team. For years, management has fed us the line that we were 1 or 2 players away. For that we got Ricky Williams (2 lost first rounders), AJ Feeley (lost second rounder, Daunte Culpepper (lost second rounder), Trent Green (lost 5th or 4th). Or overpriced free agents, such as Joey Porter. Management should have been concerned with building and maintaining a franchise rather than selling it's future for a quick solution. Think of what those 2 first round and 2 second round picks could be doing instead of the 3 guys (each billed as the final piece when acquired) who cost so much for so little return. Rather than playing to salvage a "respectable" final record, I applaud the decision to develop younger players and build for the future. That's my written novel for the day.
I'm just happy for Chambers, he got out of this hell that we are all stuck in. Good for him, I hope he can thrive on a team with real talent.
I hope we do get a shut down CB next yr.. with our first rd pick (providing there's one worthy of a top 5 pick) WE should go DT/DE with one of our 2nd. rd picks & MLB with the other.. providing Beck is the QB of the future...
sense we are "testing" our rookies & young players.. where in the h3ll is L.Booker ??
Armando,
Does this deal give Miami any cap relief? I was happy they got a 2nd round pick. When I found out Chambers got traded, I thought it was for a 3rd or 4th.
Miami saves about $10 mill over the next 2 yrs. Now if we could just get rid of Porter's contract...
Mueller is awful. Having a plan is a requisite for success but not sufficient --- failing with a plan is just as bad as failing without one in terms of having good players on your team. Mueller needs to be changed for someone with superior talent assessment and judgement - until that happens, the Dolphins will be toast. By the way, it would also help if Huizenga sold.
Rick - fan since 1978
Why would they cur Darius?
Hell, for the game he was in he seemed to be making some serious plays and was bringing an intensity to the defense.
Unless they are worried about his health or want to make Jason Allen play safety... oh lord...
DAMN IT SALGUERO!!!! Stop using big words!! Quick reminder -->10-6!!! 10-6!?! 10-6???? No wonder you are so bitter... but keep up the good work!
Great Deal for Chris Chambers, good luck brother!!
Well, we've got to do something to rebuild & jettison the bloated salary cap for young guys.
Pre-season many good mature & pricey receivers were free. It now depends on the draft pick, boom or bust.
Roll the dice, I guess we can't get much worse!!
However, I hated the Wes Welker trade. Its hard to draft a bonifide star with a 2nd-round pick??? New England got a guaranteed star for a 2nd ... dumb for us!!! ... now we gamble with the 2nd. NE smart, Miami dumb.
Go Phins!! Cheers, JerryD
Early in the off-season I teared my cloths off when they traded Wes Welker and claimed that they should have gotten rid of Chambers. He might be a good guy, but come on, he never played to the expectations. Not even during his pro-bowl year (the first half of the season, I remember well he couldn´t catch a cold). He got the numbers cause the team was weaponless.
Now.. what are the spectacular catches he made? I remember ONE. But I remember dozens of them in the hands of Duper, Clayton, and some of the guys playing during the early 90's.
He seems to be a nice person, no doubt about it. But he was average at top.
I do have trust in Cameron and Muller. Hope they will lift up to them.
I agree, but damn,.. Ginn will be a superstar! and it starts on this, the 16th of October, 2007!! YEAH!! GIN.N ON THE ROCKS!!! LETS DO THIS MIAMI!!!
GREAT DAY MORE PICKS FOR BILL COWHER TO WORK WITH!
Where to begin? You are 110% correct when you say what will they do with the pick. Here is where I have my most problems with Mueller. His ability to PICK and SIGN scares me. He's more wrong than right on most occasions. Don't take my word for it. Look it up yourself.
So if the Chargers win the superbowl that pick translates into the 64th overall pick. Basically, a third round pick.
I'm glad they finally admitted to lying to the fans about this team.
But my momma always told me to NEVER TRUST A LIAR. They have proven time and time again that they can't be honest.
I'm not comfortable with these two at the helm.
Oh great, another draft pick for Cam-Mueller to bungle. I hear Ted Ginn's extended family will be in the draft next year, maybe we can complete the set!
Has Chambers made a difference in winning games? NO. Is it possible a future draft pick might? YES.
It's so easy when you try not to get the pea involved Armando.
I'm tired of the CaMueller bashing. Enough all ready. Give them time to rebuild.
And get off Ginn's back. The rookie has made improvements each week. And CaMueller has several other draft picks playing regularly. The only really confusing and confounding pick is Booker: Why is he lost on the practice squad?
And get Beck into the starting role the week after the bye-week.
Ken in San Diego
Since I correctly predicted before the season that Ronnie will be the only RB to get carries, I will strut my new prediction here:
Chamber's trade cleared the way for Ted Ginn to become the #1 receiver. You don't draft a #1 receiver and not use him. All Cam was waiting for was for Ginn to prove himself as a returner before working him into receiving. Ginn has done that the last 2 weeks and now the trade forces Ginn into the role. It is time for Ginn to join the offense. I am also predicting that my opinion will be very unpopular. But if I'm wrong, I will just slink away from blogville.
Here's my reasoning for Ginn as the #1 receiver:
When I was watching the last Dolphins [expletive deleted] in Cleveland, I thought the 3 long passes missed by Chambers would have been caught by Ginn if they were thrown to him. Not because Ginn is better than Chambers, who is very fast, but because Lemon was accounting for Ginn's "turbo-speed" and that's why he overthrew the passes. In my opinion, a good strategy for the upcoming NE loss would be to run Ginn in those same patterns instead of Chambers. I didn't think Ginn was more talented, I thought the Cleo-Ginn combo had a higher probability of completion.
Now I read that the Randy-Cam duo went one step further. In an effort to not write off this season, they chose the Lemon-Ginn combo as their "primary passing strategy" by trading Chambers for a second round pick next year. They traded him for value and solved 2 problems at once: trading a #1 receiver who drops a lot of passes and paving the way for their #1 pick to be the #1 receiver. 100+ yards receiving and 150+ yards on returns would be a great start this Sunday, especially against NE. However, let's give him at least 3-5 games to start earning his paycheck. Remember, Chambers had years.
IF Ginn is productive then:
1] Don't expect to see Beck this year. If Ginn isn't productive then expect to see Beck-Ginn as the main passing strategy. I'm assuming Cleo's passing accuracy would be the problem.
2] Admit you were wrong if you whined about the Dolphins drafting a kick returner at #9. Forget about them passing on Brady Quinn and focus on your reaction when Cam said "kick returner." You knew they were actually drafting a #1 receiver all along, right???? You knew the "returner talk" was just for the beginning of his career, right? Ginn was the fastest guy in the draft. Unlike Hester, he was a good receiver in college in addition to being a good returner. So if #2 draft pick Calvin Johnson was unavailable, why not draft the Ted Ginn clan if you wanted a speedy receiver, right? Calvin has 192 yds from 11 receptions so far. Ginn has 83 with 3 receptions plus 700 yards returning.
3] San diego has no good receivers. They will love Chambers. Don't complain when Chambers is great in SD like you did when Welker proved great in NE. [Who wouldn't with Brady passing to him?] We know Welker was really good in Miami, but Satele, drafted with the pick for Welker, is needed a whole lot more by the Dolphins. A solid O-Line is required for sucess. We know this, painfully. Let's hope the 2nd round pick for Chambers next year is as valuable.
4] Have hope the future will actually be better. If the Dolphins 3rd round pick this year is their biggest bust in the draft, that is a giant leap forward for this team. I can live with that.
Chambers, an all-pro, gets us a #2. Welker, a journeyman, gets us a #2 and a #7.
Your right about one thing. I don't think they will know what to do with that 2nd round pick.
These guys should have been up fron with the fans and told us we'er gutting the team and rebuilding. Nothing I've seen suggests they wanted to be competitive this year.
Hey Scott...you took the words right of my mouth! GREAT post!
"Phins Fan In Da Pacific" read his post...study it...and yes...there WILL be a quiz later.
Scott...like you I said all along Ronnie would prove his worth. As will Ted now...as has Samson...as has Vernon...as Mauai IS...we NEED more "Yoots". lol
I'll miss Chris...he was one of my favorites...but by the time we're where we need to be...his prime will be behind him. Hagan will rise to be of equal value to CC...and I can't wait to see GINN surpass it!
GO PHINS...BEAT NEW ENGLAND!
COME ON JT...get ON your horse baby...it's your old friend Brady coming to town. Time to get after it!!!
~JinVA
Welcome back, Armando! Great article, and I agree. While things look bleak for the 2007 season, I believe that we will really start to see a much better Dolphins team in 2008.
Go ahead, trade JT for a good pick in the draft. You'll get no argument from me. I find it disconcerting to know that he tends to take the month of September off each year anyway.
Go Dolphins!
DrumFinFan
I agree with you Armando Randy's not perfect ...just look at the Welker move, Im happy for Chambers now he has a chance to be someone more then he was in miami anyone we trade becomes a superstar ....RIGHT WES, wow its going to be a long year.
This is actually really good for Chris Chambers career. I don't see how he couldn't be excited about going from 0-6 to a starting on a team that has a chance to go to the playoffs.
What has Chris Chambers done the last two years that would command a 2nd round pick? What a deal the Dolphins got.
A future pro-ofense-line, Satele is here, because of Welker second round pick!
We hope this second round 2008 will bring another Satele, or a good corner back!
Welker is as good as Brady is, and that's a lot!
Hope for the future! Go Beck!
This is the problem with Miami. They trade the good players.(Welker, maybe Chambers) To teams with a good QB and Def.)Then that player becomes even better. Why not stop getting rid of what talent we have and get rid of the junk in the trunk! We need a Solid QB, Some better O-linemen, and some DBs and D-line to help a still Very Good Zack and J.T.They don't want to give players the $ to stay but will pay big $ to replace players. I've been a fin fan since 1971(3yrs old) and thier problem has always been they can not get it going on both side of the ball. Great Offence no Def.and so on. When you have an old house you don't replace the good you fix the bad.
I wonder how much this last game played into the decision with Chambers. Mueller loves speed and Chambers was unable to catch up to 2 long passes that they pitched his way. Mueller might have decided we need more speed in the starting lineup, and Booker and Chambers are not blazers. I just have a bad feeling about the trade. You trade a starter for a 2nd round pick that you hope will make the team. I dont know, just doesnt sit right
I think we would have been better off trading Chambers last year instead of Welker.
This way we would have still gotten the draft picks we got with the Welker trade, and still had a proven reciver , and return man.
Good job. I like what you say. I was with you at 10-6 but it appears it is a long uphill climb to the top. I expect 3 or 4 years before we are in a championship game and that is if we make the correct moves over the next couple of drafts. (prediction based on a SI article a couple of years ago on expected turn arounds)
I've already posted my discontent several times already. All I have left to say is this is yet, another RIDICULOUS decision. You can sugar-coat it however you want, it's terrible!
im tired of hearing people bash the fins for the trade of welker. the guy was good last year and is now with a good qb. but everyone forgets it wasnt only the 2nd round but a 7th round. no1 thought that w/ moss and stallworth, welker would become what he is. and although welker was our go to guy last year it was the right move. brady just seems to have connected w/ welker quickly.
-cj
Armando,
"a starting-caliber player that starts, like, soon."
"Does it always work out? No. This just in: The guy is not perfect."
Writing like this makes me think you've started dating a high school girl. You're not pulling a Mark Chmura are you?
Great article, I know Chambers was set to become a free agent at the end of the season and would have commanded some big $$. If Mueller and Cameron were not planning to resign Chambers than this is a heck of a deal, even if the 2nd rounder turns out to be average. This season is a waste so it would not matter if Chambers was in the line-up or not, hopfully this gives everyone a good hard look at Hagen and Ginn and find out if they are everything they are supposed to be.
Armando, you say you don't care what this means for Ginn, and then mention that we need plays in the 30-50 yard range. That's where the big plays will be coming from.
Secondly, those of you who couldn't draft behind a semi-trailer, and bashing Mueller with references to 'look it up' and blaming him for Jason Allen:
Allen played for Tennessee, where SABAN (who had final say in personnel decisions and wanted to get rid of Mueller) saw him when Tn. and LSU met. SABAN is responsible for the pick.
I DID look up Mueller's drafts:
1995- Drafted WR Joey Galloway 1st round, TE Christian Fauria 2nd round
1996- OG Pete Kendall 1st, CB Fred Thomas 2nd, DE Phillip Daniels 4th, QB Jon Kitna (un-drafted free agent) and signed free agent S Darryl Williams (Pro Bowl ,1997)
1997- Traded Rick Mirer and 4th round pick to Chicago for their first (11th overall) then traded that pick and some lower round picks to Atlanta for their 1st (3rd overall)
With this pick he drafted CB Shawn Springs. Then traded 1st round pick (12th overall) and a third to Tampa for their 1st (6th overall) and drafted OT Walter Jones.
Drafted TE Itula Mili 6th and signed free agent LB Chad Brown (free agent, Pittsburgh)
1998 – LB Anthony Simmons 1st (#15) OT Todd Weiner 2nd, RB Ahman Green 3rd, RB Ricky Watters free agent, P Jeff Feagles free agent.
2000 –Mueller had no first round pick thanks to Ditka the year before (We all know why) DE Darren Howard 2nd, DT Norman Hand , WR Joe Horn, QB Jeff Blake , CB Fred Thomas free agents and got QB Aaron Brooks from GB for a 3rd.
2001 – RB Duece McAllister 1st (#23) S Jay Bellamy, KR/PR Michael Lewis free agents and TE Boo Williams un-drafted free agent
2002 – Traded Ricky Williams to WannSpiel for TWO 1st round picks
Drafted WR Donte Stallworth 1st (#13) DE Charles Grant 1st (#25, Miami’s pick) C LeCharles Bentley 2nd then free agents WR Jerome Pathon, OT Victor Riley and DT Grady Jackson.
2005-2006 Saban had final say on all personnel matters.
I’d say Mueller had some solid drafts and trades as well as signing some significant free agents. He’s come into some difficult situations and done well with what and whom he has had to work. In Seattle he was saddled with Whittset In NO he inherited a team that had spent every draft pick the previous year including the first rounder from the current year and did very well, being named NFL Executive of the Year. Then there is the Saban saga, where he was not in charge of the picks.
Please inform yourselves before making ridiculous and unfounded statements. I know, of course, that that is asking too much.
Scott makes a LOT of sense in his post.
Like Mr. Salguero, when I heard the news that Miami traded Chambers, my initial reaction was ambivalence……then that morphed into, “wow, they staff is taking a huge gamble!” Then I thought of the last game against the Brownies, watching Chambers not really making the effort on two long pass plays that would have been possible TDs if Ginn (or Steve Smith) was the WR. During Arrrrmando’s game day blog, I kept mentioning how Chambers looked anemic, and he wasn’t really “going for it.” Thre was one play where he only got one hand on the ball, when TWO would have made the catch. In addition, I made a comment on how it seems that he has to JUMP for every pass thrown his way, even though the passes are right on the money and jumping isn’t necessary. When you JUMP, you will limit your YAC. If you catch it on the RUN, you get much needed yards. Chambers was NEVER a YAC guy, which we desperately need. Marty Booker gets more YAC when he actually catches passes. (Does Booker become our #1 WR now??)
I applaud the staff for making this gamble. Another 2nd round pick in the next draft could turn out to be a gem. Given our recent drafting history, it could also be disaster, but I’ll give this staff the benefit of the doubt at this stage.
Chambers is a good guy and an excellent player. I remember him lighting up the Cowboys on Thanksgiving a few years ago and I remember seeing him catch the game winner vs the Bills a couple of years ago when Miami was at one point, down 21-3. I just haven’t seen him do anything of late. I’m sure the inconsistency at QB was a factor. I really & sincerely wish him luck and success in San Diego. He instantly becomes their #1 WR and will have a very good QB in Phillip Rivers throwing to him. I will not be bitter if & when I see highlights of him catching bombs from Rivers.
Come on Coaches….lets start seeing the young guys……LET THEM PLAY!!! Feed them to the wolves, because that’s what the Patsies are this weekend…..WOLVES. Trial by fire, gentlemen. Ginn & Booker….show us what you got! (and BECK too!!!........but only if the LEMON starts to BLOW IT)
Facts are: Dolphins blew up a team that could have been a Super Bowl contender this year. Yes, a Super Bowl contender.
Bring back Daunte at QB, keep Chambers, Welker, McMike, KCarter, the list is a long one, bring back the good players you jettisoned, combine that with a better draft and better free agent signings, like going after Randy Moss, and THEN PUT IN A GOOD COACH, NOT A DWEEB LIKE CAM, and the team would have been a winner.
Friends and fags, the present management has destroyed the Dolphins. Lets call it for what it is -- a stupid management team that is taking the team progressively down the road to ruin.
Cut loose JT and Zach, spare them more of the agony of being part of this bunch of losers running the show nowadays.
This last post by JJ is as stupid a post as I have ever read. Nearly as stupid as forcing out Shula to bring in the real JJ.
"Superbowl Contender" ????
With Daunte Culpepper??? HELLOOOOO?
With this secondary??? HELLOOOOO?
With Olindo Mare and the punter who was so bad I can't remember his name??? HELLLOOOOOOO?
Stupid stupid stupid. And even more stupid.
The more I read this blog the more I realize there are a bunch of idiots who are dolphin fans. I realize the gene pool is shallow in South Florida, so I will write slowly. 1) Forget the past! 2) Forget the past!! 3) Give Cam at least 2 or 3 years before we start to crucify him. I will completely support moving him back into a OC role in 2009 if he hasn't performed. However, let's review the facts. 1) Anyone who thought we where going to have a winning record this year (Armando) needs to be tested for the same stuff Ricky got kicked out for! 2) We are what we are and we are a product of how we have drafted. 3)There are some serious bright spots in this last years draft. 4) Draft day and how it roled out to the fan base was not the best way to be sly about the talent and what RM and CC say in the draft day results. 5) Ted Ginn has speed, Ted Ginn can catch, and Ted Ginn is a wonderful football player. Ted Ginn will be one of the top 5 players picked out of the 2007 draft in overall performance. first Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, Calvin Johnson, Ted Ginn and JRuss. Ted was the best available player and time will prove that.
6) Maui and Satelle are studs! They are humble, hard working, loyal, great teammates and most of all good players. These guys are exactly the guys you start building around.
We have been dealt a hand in this game of football, we can cry and become the lions, bills, browns, jets (by the way they are all better than us) or we can move forward. This trade of Chambers is exactly what we have been asking for from the front office. We have been begging for them to tell us what direction are we going in? When will we know if our young guys can play? What are we doing to get better? Well Dolphans.....How about stock piling draft picks for next year. And more thing, you don't always need to draft with the war chest of picks....we could use them to trade up on draft day or make a huge veteran trade down the road. Please be positive, give the team of RM and CC a chance to hang themselves with the very long rope they deserve!
some of you "fans" are complete idiots. First thing first Wes Welker is an all heart player he gives you everything he has play in and play out and i will always respect him for that. BUT you people calling him a star, stop it! He is there 3rd recioever 3rd! he is covered by nicklebacks and linebackers and he never ever runs a roite of more than 10 yards...star he is not. Then you hear all of this about mueller drafting jason allen, well saban drafted allen as has been previously reported saban had the final say on every draft choice no matter what so blame him not mueller. Finally all of you "fans" bashing cameron give him some time the offenese is allready surpassed last years dismal output and with TIME our defense will come back around too. To Mr. Chambers good luck and i wish you all the best.....
jj is a pretty stupid post but the punter last year name is damon jones and is having a great year this year and did have good year last year. just pointing out
--CJ
I hear Mama Ginn is cookin up a batch of cookies to die for. I like the extended Ginn Family with this new pick for sure. Heck with Chambers, what did he ever do? I hope he flops in SD helping us get a BETTER pic - what's wrong with you fans? Cam-Muleer have not reached the levels of incompetence that Spiel-Stedt did, but I admit they are on their way.
This is the curse of Marino my friends - Dave Dumstedt told our legend he had to compete for a job with Jay Fiedler which caused our beloved Dan to cosider the VIKINGS!!! And yo uwonder why its been all downhill since. Mmmm - those cookies are almost ready! Daddy Ginn, grab me a glass of milk!
From 1996 thru 2004 of all the players we drafted only 5 are still Phins. J.Taylor-97 Z.Thomas-96 Y.Bell-03 V.Carey & R.Hadnot-04
and I belive we've drafted a few "busts" in 2005-2007 aswell.. so why are we excited about this extra 2nd rd pick ?? UGH !!
Stupid post? "Stpuid, stupid, stupid.."
Gay boy poster, you the stupid one for still believing in a coach that has not won a game and looks to keep on being a loser.
Did I say Olindo? No, but if you still think Trent over Daunte was an upgrade you on serious crack or are a retard. I guess myself and Sports Illustrated are alone in thinking the team had the talent to go the Super Bowl, but considering you just "anonymous" and act like a gay retard, I am comfortable being in the same company as Sports Illustrated.
Yes, with Daunte, plus Ronnie, and keeping receivers like Wes, who is playing fantastic in Patriots land, just think if we had Moss, Welker and Chambers, which was possible if we had had good management, then maybe we'd be talking about one of the great teams in the league -- not so far fetched. The Defense could have been fixed by not signing Porter and instead using that big money to re-sign Carter and getting more depth and signing a cornerback or defensive back, i.e. adding depth and keeping Carter..
The point is, you gay boy posters who still giving Cam love, you folks really need to move to New Jersey or something. Its embarrassing to be a fan of the Dolphins, not just because we are losing but because idiots like you..
Can not believe you people support Miami even when they are pathetic and a laughingstock..
By the way, with all this talk of gay...I would like to make an announcement....I am coming out of the closet! Thanks
Speculation of what coulda or shoulda been gets you NOWHERE.
Didn't the 1994 Dolphins have something like 8 or 9 former #1 picks. What happened to that team?
Sorry, but once again, teams get built through the draft, with one or two key free agent acquisitions. Mueller is now doing the shopping for Cam's groceries. Saban (the idiot) handled it for the two years before that.
It takes BALLS to trade away your number one WR. Like it or not, and regardless of what Huizenga says, we are rebuilding. That is plain as day to see. We are in a transitional phase and this team is about to get a whole lot younger.
Now, on to this Sunday. Remember when nobody gave the Dolphins a snowball's chance in hell to beat the Bears last year, yet they still did it? I bet nobody will give them a snowball's chance at Dolphins Stadium that they will win on Sunday. To believe any different would mean that I'm smoking something. So what does it mean if I continue to have hope?
haha..
funny. the anonymous guy who knows nothing about football is using my name..yeah, you got no life.
h.c.d: its relevant to talk about what could have been because it helps us evaluate what we got now for coach and gm, and what we got now ain't good. mueller likes to stir the pot too much, sometimes you just need to let things stay and make adjustments as needed. what was lacking was better coaching on offense, a ted ginn speedster, a better offensive line, and a healthy qb -- that was the difference between contending and going 9-7 last year under saban.
there was not, then, a need to blow things up and start from scratch, as we are doing now.
jj...you're an idiot. We didn't go "9-7 last year under Saban" jack a$$.
You are the one who looks like a fool wanting to hang Cam and Randy after 6 games and ONE draft! How many TIMES do I have to constantly point out...JJ...1-15 at Dallas. Bill Parcells...3.12-1 first year at the Giants. The list of coaches who had adjustment time in the first year or two goes ON and ON and ON. You can NOT...I repeat...can NOT fix a team like ours in ONE year, and if you do...it is with QUICK veteran fixes that get you NO WHERE long term! Why can't some of you GET THAT? When you go for a decade like we did where we're always 9-7...10-6...you hardly EVER get the chance to draft a true "franchise" guy who you can have for his entire career. Ala...Ronnie Brown. When you consistently draft in the 20-30 range...your chance of hitting on a star goes down. Especially when Wanny, Speilman, and Saban are running the draft. Mueller has PROVEN he can spot talent. Give him some TIME you impatient, spoiled, uninformed cry baby fan wanna bees.
For you to say "Can not believe you people support Miami even when they are pathetic and a laughingstock.."...just SHOWS you're NOT a TRUE fan of the Dolphins.
Real fans take the good years with the bad. Just ask the Lions fans, the Cardinals fans, and the Bucs fans who suffered for decades.
You...are NOT a real fan.
Yes...I'm questioning your fanhood.
~JinVA
jinva, you're a true fag.
question my fanhood all you want, i don't support losers, and thats what the dolphins have become under you're beloved cam.
its pretty easy to see the present management does not know what they are doing..they are very much pathetic. they took a team with potential and put it on the path to ruin.
as for drafts versus veterans, the patriots have done pretty damn good with their numerous veteran free agent signings, thanks in great part to cammy and mueller. thats the path to the super bowl, wait for cam to cut loose talented dolphins..
this team is headed for laughingstockville, a true fan does not let that happen.
Jinva you are right on and JJ you read his whole post and can't agree with one point he made? I can't believe that you know much about football at all."I don't support losers and that's what they are under Cam". So if you were a Dallas fan when they sucked you wouldn't have supported them? Are you kidding us. A fan is supposed to support his team through thick and thin,it's called commitment and it's called being a true fan. If you are a front runner you can't even be taken seriously. They're losers under Cam?! Yeah we were such winners with the past three coaches. "But at least we were close waaahh". Yeah but as Jinva said that's not how you build a REAL winner. What don't you understand about that? What team with potential are you talking about. You wanted them to keep McMichael,Mare and others so we could be what 7-9 or 8-8 get a bad draft spot and continue down the road of mediocrity? By the time the Dolphins got a QB ready to throw to Welker he would be on the decline. GREAT TRADE IF YOU KNOW FOOTBALL. Do you understand this? So you would have rather give Beck and Satele back and kept Welker? AHHH forget it you're a nitwit. Do us all a favor, quit your incescent bitching and whining and jump on the bandwagon. NE,INDY,San Diego, Dallas,and Green Bay are all doing good. Pick one and go with it.
Bunch of damn cry babies. If you knew anything (not just football, anything) you'd know the current team is going no where. The Chambers trade makes perfect sense. He wasn't helping the Dolphins one bit. What's surprising is the 2nd round pick they got for him. That was one hell of a deal for Mueller.kuxhf
You guys are right. I am sorry for calling all of you fags and gay. I am truly the one who is gay and a homo. I am clearly overmatched in a debate of wit and ideas, and I therefore will never post again. I am removing myself from this post. sorry to all of the bandwagoner fans that I was representing. I am truly a loser!
its getting boring here, stupidity reigns and the humor of the person pretending to be me escapes me.
how you folks keep kissing cam's ass after an 0-6 start and his clear mistakes with trent, etc. -- it just proves most of you have now brains and belong in queerville. maybe its the gay dolphin fans here to blame for the team's decline -- you people of this ilk obviously have set a low bar. my dog could coach the dolphins and be praised by you idiots.
really, anyone who calls himself nyscott has a few screws loose.
look, time to see reality, the coach of the dolphins is gay for trent and his homo fantasies for trent have plunged the dolphins into crisis, understand?
As the saying goes, "even a blind squirrel finds an acorn". Sure, Mueller has had a few good selections since his tenure. But look at the overall talent level of this team under his control and it pales in comparison to teams that have done a heck of a lot better while still making the play-offs year in and year out with poorer draft pick selections. It hasn't all been poor coaching, but it has contributed to the current state of affairs - be it Cameron, Saban, Wandstedt, or Jimmy Johnson.
If coaches are help accountable to produce in 3 years, why isn't the same bar used for GM's??? In my humble opinion Mueller (who has ultimate deciding power on all talent decisions) should go based on what we now see.
what is a jinva?
This isn't a hard concept to understand. Despite RM being here for 3 years, Saban was in control of personnel. Saban is responsible for the Dolphins decisions. Its impossible to say how much input RM had on any of the personnel decisions (because we know nothing), so we can not hold him responsible.
We should start our timeline of RM with this season's draft, and we'll see what we've got in 2009.
And we should root for the dolphins every day of this miserable season.
Personally, I'm glad we traded CC. I am a big fan of his, we were both at Univ. of Wisc. at the same time, but he wasn't helping us win games. At this point in his career, he is more easily replaced and has more value than a lot of our other players. Great job getting a #2, and not settling for a #3. Now we should trade JT for the Colts #1. Essentially, its a #2, because they're that good. And, they'll need a monster pass-rush if tyhey hope to beat New England in the playoffs.
We can say they (team management) has given up on this season officially. I don't like it or agree with it. You say you bring in Trent Green to teach Beck how to be a good quarterback in the League. Yet, you get rid of veteran, proven defensive linemen who could help teach younger guys how to play the position. You get rid of Welker, note last weeks performance in Dallas, McMicheal, the leading tightend in Dolphins history, and now Chris Chambers, whom all the players love (just like they loved Duante). I think Cam and Randy are emotionally driven B**CHES who can't make decisions and stick with them. They have emotionally and talent wise drained this team. Mr. H is realizing it, they have to go. You trade proven players for potential possibilities. For those who say Chambers was not a good receiver, look at who he had throwing the ball to him and he still produced. Good luck Chris. I'm rooting for you just like I'm rooting for Daunte, Wes, Heath, Sammy, and Randy (McMicheal, f**k Mueller).
Excellent point Armando!
The key will be what we get with the second round pick. It wouldn't hurt to see Hagan and Ginn step up in a big way either. I must admit, the fact that we got back the same level of draft pick that we used on him years later is amazing to me.
Here is my vote on who we need to target with that pick. Jonathan Goff, LB out of Vanderbilt. Something about him makes me feel he will be our next Zach Thomas and leader on this team if we can get him.
People keep forgetting how much the Phin's pay for chambers each year. Between booker and chambers next year is almost 15 million next year in salary. We got something for him s opposed to releasing him because they couldn't afford him. They would have traded booker too if they could get anything for him. As those who believe we should have traded for moss, bad idea. Moss is happy when he is winning but a big distraction to younger players on the team win they are not.
I think that draft bust is John Avery. Just bustin your chops. Season's going so bad, any 'fins news is irritating. Man I think we're the equivalent of the Portland Trailblazers making all these crappy picks and trades. Ironically, when a player gets let go or traded he goes and achieves elsewhere(i.e. Wes Welker, Terry Kirby, Dante, Brian Cox). And those DB's are the resurrection of Paul Lankford and J.B. Brown. Good news-nowhere to go but up fellow Dolfans(The real ones who are still on board)
Hey, JJ? Why do you feel the need to attempt to insult people with a differing opinion to yours rather than come up with compelling counters to their arguments? First off, your argument that we should have kept Pepp fails to recognize the fact that we needed a QB that could help our future (Beck) develop, as well as to begin tooling the team for that future. You think the Raiders would have been so hot on Pepp had they not drafted Russell? Second, you have to give CC more than six games to throw him under the bus. That fact doesn't make me Gay for the guy, it just makes me sensible.
As for why I posted, I also thought that had Ginn been running those three deep routes, we had a better chance to complete them. I have been a Chambers appologist for the past few years, but truth is, he dropped so many balls thrown straight between the numbers, even I was getting discouraged. He was brilliant, as long as the ball was no where near his body. If it was in his chest, he let it eat him up. Drafting a replacement for Booker(Marty) wouldn't be that bad a call in the next year, or two either. We pay him much too much for the ammount of Drops, and the lack of production we see from him. Ginn is a good start, he just needs someone on the other side to be his Clayton. I wish CC the best in SD.
It's nice to see at least one move that might have an impact next year. Chambers, while having decent numbers has never put up STAR numbers; you can chalk that up to having bad QB's, but I credit it to all the balls he's dropped. He was a #1 receiver making #1 receiver money, but never put up the numbers (with the exception of one year, in which he was also one of the leading "droppers " in the league.
I'm decidedly ticked that once more, the season was done before it started, but at least we're seeing some bright spots: The O-line is playing better than we've seen in YEARS, and Ronnie B. is having the opportunity to show what he's about. I'm thinking this offense, with some solid QB play/game management and (hopefully) some great play by Ginn and Hagan (I saw a lot of his college games in the Pac-10, and he really DID look like a man among boys) has the potential to be one of the better offenses in the league. For crying out loud, people, are you noticing how many points we've been putting up on the board lately? Some better special teams play, a key stop by the D on 3rd down and we'd have been in nearly every game this season.
The problem is that Miami lost two receivers in Wes Welker and chambers. Way to go... A prescription for 1-15 is losing your starting receivers and
replacing them with Mr. Irrelevant. It's no wonder Bill Parcell's fired Mueller and Cameron.
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